This is Jocko Podcast Number 433 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, also joining us tonight.

Dave Burke, good evening, Dave. Good evening. So sometimes Dave, you and I wander into conversations about aerial combat.

It's actually surprising to me sometimes how rarely we do that because of your entire career,

minus what, six months or one year

that you were on the ground.

But the rest of your entire career was aerial combat.

And I, it's funny, you will tell me something about aerial combat.

At least this was probably at two years ago, three years ago.

You would tell me something about aerial combat, and I would kind of interject that,

yeah, you see, that's like the, that's covered move or whatever.

And as, you know, as another subject would come up, you'd explain to me how you do something in Euro combat,

and I would always see these connections and I thought it would be good to kind of share those connections with with everybody so that they can continue to see how if you see the way broadly you can see it in all things so aerial combat

Well first of all when we talk about aerial combat when you when you hear the word aerial combat I know some people are thinking of a dog fight right now. What are you thinking about? I'm not thinking of a dog fight not that you can't be in a dog fight, but when I think of aerial combat I'm thinking about a thousand different things an airplane can do to contribute to the battlefield.

And the range of that thing is so wide.

There's so many different things that is that I don't go to one specific thing.

I just think about, and certainly what I grew up up with how much more a person in an

airplane can do now than they could do 30 40 50 and beyond years ago. It's pretty

complicated stuff and at the same time every time we talk it, we find these super obvious similarities and how simple that stuff is too from what we know about everything else too.

So there's a lot to discuss, but in the end, there's going to be a lot of parallels.

I was reading a book and I forget which book it was was some book about air and they were explaining how the machines like when we think of a World War II plane either a B17 a P51 or P3 what any one of them we think of like we think of antiques we think of antiques you know when they were going out to those planes to fly them, they were in the most modern badass science, the edge of science, aircraft ever.

And it's weird to think about that.

You know, I mean, imagine Echo Charles,

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