How often do you say yes when you really feel no?

When you're on the line.

When you're on the line.

And that's why today we're diving deep into the art and science of building a strong backbone that will allow you to finally assert yourself in your relationships, on the job, and in the world.

My guest is none other than Dr. Sanita Saw.

She's a physician, an award-winning professor at Cornell University, and the author of Defy,

the power of no in a world that demands yes. Welcome, Dr. Saw. It's a pleasure to be here.

I'm so excited to talk with you. Your research is absolutely fascinating and it has such an

interesting focus. Understanding these forces that compel people to obey or go along with

things that are really not in alignment with their values versus times when people feel

empowered to defy, meaning that they can stand up for themselves and say, no, I'm not doing that, even when

there can be a lot of pressure around them to comply. And first of all, I'm just so curious to know

how you became interested in this area of research, because you've done all kinds of things.

And so I'm wondering, how you landed here?

Is there a personal story here? I have been fascinated by what the word to defy means for a long time.

And as a child, I was known for being an obedient daughter and student. And I remember asking my dad when I was quite young,

what does my name Sinita mean? And he told me that my name in Sanskrit means good. And

mostly I lived up to that. I did what I was told. I did my homework as expected. I went to school on time.

I even had my hair cut the way my parents insisted. And the input messages that I received from my

parents, from the community, from teachers is to be good, to obey, not make a scene, don't question

authority. And we often teach our children these

messengers. I'm in my third career right now. I did medicine first of all. In the UK,

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