Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're hearing this, you're not currently on our subscriber feed, and we'll only be hearing the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense podcast, you'll need to subscribe

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becoming one. I am here with Jonah Goldberg. Jonah, thanks for joining me. It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me back. Yeah, it's great to see you again. So I'm sure there's a lot to talk about. Let's remind people, first of all, where they can find most of your stuff to read online. And how do you describe what you do and where you are these days?

Sure.

I'm the editor-in-chief of the dispatch, which Steve Hayes and I launched about six years ago

because we wanted to sort of model behavior that wasn't too much on display in American

journalism, particularly in right-of-center journalism.

And so we are unapologetically right-of-center.

We have some left-of-center writers as well, but we are kindapologetically right of center. We have some left of center

writers as well, but we are kind of, we pride ourselves on being fact-driven and we're sort

of violently non-partisan, so we're perfectly happy to talk about how the Republican Party's a

shit show. And so the dispatch is the best place to find me. I'm an LA Times columnist,

have been for almost two decades, and I've got a podcast

called The Remnant. So there you go. Nice. Nice. Well, let's start with Trump 2.0. How is it going?

How is the first, what is this, seven months, almost eight months been in your view. What had

surprised you? What is better than you thought,

worse than you thought? Yeah, so that's a good question. I have to admit I was wrong about some

things. I, like a lot of people, thought that we would see more continuity with the first term

for good and for ill than we have. I had this theory. I may even floated it on here, that the kind of mass deportation

he was promising is too big of a lift logistically and politically for him to pull off.

I don't think he's where, he still hasn't gotten to where he sort of promised to go,

...