When I make changes to a program I try to create something and then I have to sort of try it out on people.

Oftentimes some of the things that I think are very intuitive end up being difficult for people to understand.

I have to go back and work with the medium a lot more.

MacPaine has been through 12 major rewrites, and one each time I've managed to make it simpler

and more powerful at the same time and I think just going back and being willing to try

it out on a lot of people and really be honest about what things are hard to do and what things can match the way people think about it.

And having a good rapport with the people that will be using it, that's what really makes a program easy to understand.

Hello and welcome to the local gas service 30 plus minute out minute app conversation you're going to hear all week long.

I'm your host Airfon Eliza.

Joining me today at his house he erected a towering statue of Stella Artois.

And guess what? At the Stella Artois H-Q, they build the statue of him.

He's the founder of Coltimac. Leander Kaney is here.

It's a Fountin. It's a Stela still arts while founded right?

Yeah no.

Also with those if he were an apple device he'd be a Macbook

pros.

You know because he's an editor and he writes a lot.

It sounded great in my head.

Man to get a better editor of Colthamack.

Louis Wallace is here.

I'm just so glad you didn't say an iPad mini.

I wouldn't call you an iPad mini thanks you're more like an

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