The

The Welcome, everyone to another episode of the Most Notorious podcast. I'm Eric.

It is so great to have Jack El Hai, a fellow Minnesotan, back to chat.

If you haven't heard our interview on Minnesota's Most Notorious yet,

it's about the mysterious 1951 disappearance of three young brothers in Minneapolis.

I'll include the link in the show notes so you can listen or relisten if you'd like.

He's written many books, including one that became a major motion picture at the end of 2025, a film starring Rami Malick and Russell Crow.

It's called The Nazi and the Psychiatrist, Herman Garing, Dr. Douglas M. Kelly, and a fatal meeting of minds at

the end of World War II. Happy to have you back on the podcast. Thanks so much. My pleasure to be

back with you, Eric. So yeah, the Nuremberg trials were such a massive and important affair, and writing about them in their entirety, I mean, that would be just an incredible undertaking. I would assume multiple volumes of information. But you really found a fascinating angle, this relationship between two men on opposite sides.

Would you tell us what the process was like?

Just kind of trying to figure out not only how to pick your topic, but how to organize it

and tell the story the way you wanted to tell it.

Sure.

The Nazi and the psychiatrist focuses on the work of Dr. Douglas Kelly, who was a U.S.

Army psychiatrist working in military field hospitals at the end of World War II in Europe

and who was called upon after the war ended to go among the top German leaders who had been

arrested and were being held for trial for war crimes, crimes against peace,

crimes against humanity, and to appraise them whether they were mentally fit to stand trial.

But that was a quite simple task for someone like Dr. Kelly.

He could appraise their sanity in the legal sense very easily and quickly.

And so he set out, having this opportunity to be among some of the arch criminals of the 20th century, he set out to learn more about them,

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