421 | Stuart A. Reid: The Lumumba Plot - The Secret History of the CIA, a Cold War Assassination, and Decolonization

The Realignment

Saager Enjeti, Technology, Policy, News, Marshall Kosloff, International Relations, Politics, News Commentary, Public Policy, U.s. Politics, National Security, Economics

4.8 • 2.5K Ratings

🗓️ 27 October 2023

⏱️ 59 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Stuart A. Reid, an Executive Editor at Foreign Affairs and author of The Lumumba Plot: The Secret History of the CIA and a Cold War Assassination, joins The Realignment. Marshall and Stuart discuss the CIA's role in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba, the first leader of independent Congo, how paranoia over the threat of communism and the USSR's intentions led America astray during the Cold War, why the Congo crisis delegitimized the United Nations as a conflict mediator, the parallels between the first Cold War and U.S. China competition today, and the legacy of decolonization's success and failures in Africa.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Marshall here. Welcome back to The Realignment.
0:03.0	I've got an excellent guest today, speaking with Stuart Reed. He's the author of a new book,
0:13.9	a Lumumba plot, the secret history of the CIA, and a Cold War assassination. My goal with these
0:20.4	Friday episodes are to kind of look at history and recent books that explore how moments in history
0:26.1	can rhyme with our times. Today, obviously a lot of folks are concerned that we're in a second
0:31.5	Cold War this time, versus China, instead of the Soviet Union. So, especially as we see
0:36.8	debated about how the US and China are going to compete in Africa, it's helpful to look back
0:42.0	at how the CIA, the US foreign policy establishment, and other apparatuses of the government
0:47.8	factored into previous eras. In this case, the assassination of Patrice Lumumba in the early
0:53.4	1960s when Congo became an independent country, and many saw it as an actual space of competition
0:59.6	for the US and the Soviet Union. Many respects that assassination led to a very obvious disaster,
1:05.3	the fate of Congo over the next 30 plus years. So, I think as we're looking at this new Cold War
1:11.2	today, it's important we look back to history as well too. Hope you all enjoy this conversation
1:16.3	and a huge thank you to the foundation for American innovation supporting the work of this podcast.
1:24.0	Stuart Reed, welcome to the realignment. Thank you for having me, Marshall. So, Stuart, I loved
1:30.0	the Lumumba pot, excellent book, excellent history. The obvious question to ask any historian who is
1:36.7	writing a topic that is going to have resonance to issues that are facing today, why this book,
1:42.1	why this topic, why now, beyond the obvious fact that it takes time to publish things,
1:47.6	you know, at a narrative level, why do you think this is a relevant book for today?
1:51.2	The fundamental story of my book is about a man being misjudged, Lumumba, Prime Minister of Congo.
1:58.9	The Americans really viewed him as potentially pro-Soviet and pro-communist, and in fact,
2:05.2	the evidence suggests that he was more pro-American. So, I think the lesson there for today
	...

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