411 - Dr. Michael Levin & Dr. John Vervaeke - Brave New Biology: Intelligence Trumps DNA
The Symbolic World
Jonathan Pageau
4.8 • 933 Ratings
🗓️ 20 September 2025
⏱️ 84 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Levin’s research centers on diverse forms of intelligence and unconventional embodied minds, bridging conceptual theory, experimental biology, and translational work aimed at regenerative medicine. His lab also pioneers efforts in artificial intelligence and the bioengineering of novel living machines.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/iwOJ9PWcPmo
Read more about Dr. Michael Levin’s work: https://drmichaellevin.org/
X: https://x.com/drmichaellevin
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@drmichaellevin
John Vervaeke's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
📖 Let's take our stories back. Check out our latest book in the Tales for Now and Ever series, Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://rapunzelbook.com/
Join Fr. Stephen De Young in his Jubilees and the Nephilim course, now streaming live on The Symbolic World: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/jubilees-and-the-nephilim
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:14 - Intro music
01:40 - Introduction
02:23 - What Michael does
06:19 - Example experiments
07:51 - Memories outside the brain
12:46 - Terminology: memory
13:59 - Communicate to biological cells
15:54 - Limitations?
17:39 - Platonic patterns
34:06 - Incarnation and constraints
39:26 - Causes
49:28 - New beings in new spaces
52:25 - What the Enlightenment dismissed
55:32 - Molecular medicine
57:36 - Subtle bodies
01:00:45 - Ethics
01:03:37 - Medical and meaning applications
01:11:42 - Frightening
01:14:31 - Against the status quo
01:19:03 - Should we dabble in this technology?
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Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | I look forward to a class in school where the young kids learn about us the way that we learn |
| 0:06.6 | about cavemen when we read that, oh, my God, you used to step on a sharp stick and get |
| 0:10.5 | sepsis and die, and that was the end of that. And they would learn about us and they would say, |
| 0:14.8 | wait a minute, you're telling me, these people, they would have to live their whole life |
| 0:19.2 | in whatever body they randomly got at birth. |
| 0:22.2 | So they just got, you know, some random cosmic ray would hit their embryonic cells and they |
| 0:26.6 | would be crippled or they would have, you know, whatever their limitations of IQ or whatever, |
| 0:30.5 | they would just have to stay in that body and there was nothing they could do about it. |
| 0:34.2 | And they would have to kill other things to eat just to |
| 0:38.2 | survive. These are all crazy. These are a mature species. Shouldn't be, shouldn't be doing any of this. |
| 0:43.3 | And I feel like if, you know, in the future, when they look back, this is going to seem ridiculous. |
| 0:49.3 | It's going to seem crazy that our lives and the meaning and the achievements of our lives would be limited to things |
| 0:57.6 | that we had absolutely no control vote because we didn't know what to do. |
| 1:00.9 | You know, the cells seem to poop out after 80 or 90 years. |
| 1:04.0 | We don't know what to do. |
| 1:05.0 | And that's it. |
| 1:06.0 | That's just how we were born and that's how we stayed. |
| 1:09.0 | You know, to me, this is going to seem, the kids aren't even going to believe that this is how we live our lives. |
| 1:27.4 | This is Jonathan Pajot. Welcome to the symbolic world. |
| 1:30.3 | So hello everyone. I am here with John Rivakey that all of you know very well, but I'm also here with Michael Levin. It is the first time that I meet him. For years now, people have been telling me you have to talk to Michael. You have to talk to him. You have to talk to him. And so finally, with John's help, we were able to connect and hopefully we can have a productive discussion. |
| 2:02.3 | Michael runs a research lab at Tufts University. |
| 2:06.2 | He's doing some really amazing things that we're going to talk about, obviously, in the podcast |
... |
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