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Gender: A Wider Lens

41 — Trans: A Conversation with Helen Joyce

Gender: A Wider Lens

Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley

Health & Fitness, Society & Culture, Mental Health

4.6961 Ratings

🗓️ 17 September 2021

⏱️ 72 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The New York Times describes Helen Joyce’s book, Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality, as “an intelligent, thorough rejoinder to an idea that has swept across much of the liberal world seemingly overnight.” Joyce reminds us that her book is not about trans people, but rather, it is about the idea “that people should count as men or women according to how they feel and what they declare, instead of their biology.” Helen explains the ways it’s more acceptable for men to “give up some privilege” and strategies women in other cultures have used to opt out of unfavorable circumstances. Perhaps denying sex leads to a perfectly clear demonstration of just how different men and women can be. We also reflect on the differences between American’s tendency to double-down on bad policy and the hopefulness Helen feels with the unfolding UK reckoning with gender self-ID. In this episode, we discuss the many ramifications of “you are exactly who you say you are.”

Links:

Helen Joyce’s Website:

Thehelenjoyce.com

Helen on Twitter: Twitter.com/HJoyceGender

Book Review by Jesse Singal

Nytimes.com/2021/09/07/books/review/trans-helen-joyce.html

Helen’s interview with Andrew Doyle:

Youtube.com/watch?v=KAYR8GUJsqo

Stella’s Book Review in The Evening Standard:

Standard.co.uk/culture/books/trans-when-ideology-meets-reality-helen-joyce-review-b944183.html

Becoming Julia (Gender Transition Documentary):

YouTube.com/watch?v=kNjV37vp5qk

The End of the World is Flat by Simon Edge:

Eye-books.com/books/the-end-of-the-world-is-flat

Survivorship Bias:

En.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Small Gods by Terry Pratchett:

Terrypratchettbooks.com/books/small-gods

Extended Notes:

  • NY Times reviewed Helen’s new book, Trans, and Sasha is even in the book!
  • Helen didn’t even think her book would get published because of its taboo topic.
  • Are people fascinated with gender or with sex?
  • Non-binary people are trying to redefine everybody and trying to change a “fundamental truth.” Of course, it gets people upset.
  • What is the difference between transsexualism and gender self-ID?
  • This book is not about trans people, it’s a book about ideology.
  • If being trans was an ideology, a belief system, that’d be okay. However, this movement is trying to change gender facts, and that’s a harder thing to get behind.
  • Right now it’s very difficult to determine what stance is going to be on “the right side of history.”
  • The trans movement is structured as “the next thing” that needs to be liberated from oppression. However, will it be?
  • Why do men commit more transphobic acts than women?
  • People say that when you call people trans,...

    This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

You're listening to gender, a wider lens.

0:04.0

I'm Stella O'Malley, a psychotherapist in Ireland.

0:06.5

And I'm Sasha Ayad, an adolescent therapist in the United States.

0:10.6

Since 2016, my practice has been exclusively dedicated to gender questioning teens

0:16.1

and families impacted by gender dysphoria. I also work with gender questioning

0:20.7

teenagers and I facilitated support meetings for families and

0:24.2

individuals who have been impacted by gender issues. We're curious about the

0:28.1

concept of gender and how it's unfolding in the wider culture. Join us as we look at gender through a wider lens.

0:35.0

Helen Joyce has been a staff journalist at The Economist since 2005.

0:42.0

She's currently the Britain editor. Previous jobs include

0:45.8

finance editor and Brazil correspondent based in Sao Paulo. Before joining the

0:51.4

economist she edited Plus an online magazine about mathematics, published by the University of Cambridge.

0:59.0

And she was founding editor of the Royal Statistical Society's magazine, Significance.

1:05.0

She has a PhD in Mathematics from University College London.

1:10.0

Helen joins us today to discuss her recent book,

1:13.0

Trans, when ideology meets reality.

1:16.0

We have a fascinating conversation,

1:18.0

not about trans people per se,

1:20.0

but about gender identity ideology.

1:23.0

Here's our conversation with Helen.

1:25.0

So Helen, Joyce, today is a really big day for you actually.

1:30.0

We feel very lucky that you are on our program. Can you tell us a little bit about the significance of

...

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