399 - John Vervaeke - What Is Spirit?

The Symbolic World

Jonathan Pageau

Religion & Spirituality, Society & Culture, Education

4.8 • 824 Ratings

🗓️ 24 June 2025

⏱️ 106 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What is spirit? This was one of my most meaningful conversations with John Vervaeke yet. As we prepare for the Midwestuary 2025 conference in Chicago, we explore how beings come into existence, the mystery of unity and multiplicity, and what’s really going on with AI, angels, and the spirit of community. John shares some powerful personal transformations as well. I hope you enjoy this deep dive into spirit, ontology, and meaning.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/hqmSW3SgzHs

Register for the 2025 Midwestuary Conference in Chicago, August 22-24: https://www.midwestuary.com/

NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality

- Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
- Symbolism Masterclass course by Jonathan Pageau: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass
- John Vervaeke's course on the Symbolic World, The Cognitive Science of Ritual: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-cognitive-science-of-ritual

00:00 - Intro by Jonathan
01:25 - Intro music
01:50 - Midwestuary conference details
03:42 - What is Spirit?
05:21 - John's response
08:22 - Fellowship
11:00 - Jonathan's response
13:34 - Why it's hard to think about unity and multiplicity
16:35 - Dualism in spirit
18:32 - Modern false dichotomies
24:19 - Jonathan: Spirit outside of minds?
30:57 - Are there non-psychological spirits?
33:42 - Gathered in man
35:55 - Reduction can go both ways
37:35 - The seat of self-consciousness
42:01 - A human centered view
43:36 - John: The standard of realness
49:30 - An embodied world for everyone
56:17 - Porosity between science and myth
01:00:39 - Breath
01:02:05 - A post-Kantian vision
01:05:52 - Exampting and group identity
01:10:40 - Liturgy and team spirit
01:17:48 - Are spirits just psychological?
01:20:26 - Prophesy
01:27:43 - How do we use technology?
01:34:01 - AI

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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

Transcript

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0:00.0	As you know, over the years, I've had many conversations with John Rovecki.
0:04.0	And this summer, I'm very much looking forward to it.
0:07.1	In August 22nd, the 24th, we are going to be in Chicago together with Paul Vanderclay and some other speakers for Midwestuary,
0:15.1	continuing the discussion about how is it that supra, you know, super personal beings beings can exist and so it's going to be very
0:24.5	interesting and in this conversation is in some ways the preparation for it talking about the way in which
0:30.1	you know the way in which beings come to exist how multiplicity joins together into unity and also
0:35.9	some exploration about some of the crazy things that have been
0:38.9	going on in AI in the past few months and some of the promises and, you know, some of the strange
0:44.6	stories that have come out of it and how, you know, how is it that we can understand these
0:48.5	questions? And so I think it was one of my best conversations with John. There's some interesting
0:53.1	things happening in his own life,
0:54.6	transformations and ways in which he's coming closer.
0:58.7	In some ways, right now he's on a pilgrimage trying to reconcile himself with God.
1:03.0	I was there with him in Istanbul last week filming.
1:06.3	We filmed in Hagia Sophia.
1:07.7	We filmed in the different ancient churches there, talking about St. Maximus,
1:11.8	but also about, you know, an understanding of Christian ontology. And so it's been, it's been an
1:17.8	interesting few years, you know, getting to know John, and this is an interesting step along that way.
1:23.4	And so please enjoy.
1:40.4	This is Jonathan Peugeot. Welcome to the symbolic world.
1:51.5	Hello, everybody.
1:53.9	Welcome to another episode of Transfigured.
	...

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