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The New Evangelicals Podcast

397. Why You Should Leave Total Depravity Behind with Mako Nagasawa

The New Evangelicals Podcast

Tim Whitaker

News, Religion & Spirituality, Politics, Christianity

4.71K Ratings

🗓️ 29 September 2025

⏱️ 69 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In today's episode, Tim engages in a profound conversation with Mako Nagasawa about restorative justice, healing atonement, and the complexities of faith. They explore various atonement theories, the journey of deconstruction, and the implications of parenting on understanding God. The discussion delves into the contrast between restorative and retributive justice, the challenges posed by Christian nationalism, and the importance of recognizing the multifaceted nature of human beings. Mako's Instagram | @makonagasawa The Anastasis Center Chapters 02:31 Deconstruction and Personal Faith Journeys 08:39 The Shift from Retributive to Restorative Justice 14:39 The Role of Guilt in Evangelicalism 20:16 Restorative Justice in Practice 33:52 Understanding Psychopathy and Restorative Justice 48:53 The Complexity of Human Nature 01:05:38 Navigating Difficult Conversations and Restorative Approaches ____________________________________________________ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. This show is produced by Josh Gilbert Media | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Joshgilbertmedia.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

You're listening to the New Evangelicals podcast.

0:09.4

Hey, are you a brand that believes in justice, inclusion, and putting faith into action,

0:14.7

then we'd love to partner with you.

0:16.7

Here at the New Evangelicals podcast, we reach tens of thousands of listeners every single month,

0:21.6

people who care deeply about creating a more just, compassionate, and inclusive world.

0:26.4

We're looking for sponsors who share that mission and want to connect with an audience

0:29.8

that is thoughtful, engaged, and ready to take action.

0:33.0

If that's you, let's talk about partnering together.

0:35.7

Join us in amplifying voices for justice and building

0:38.4

something better. Email us at info at the new evangelicals.com and let's talk. That's info

0:44.9

at the new evangelicals.com. What is up, friends?

0:59.3

Welcome back to the podcast.

1:00.8

How are you doing?

1:01.4

You doing well?

1:02.6

I'm glad to hear it.

1:03.8

I'm going to assume that you all said, yes, you're doing great.

1:06.1

I have a great episode coming your way on the New Evangelicals podcast.

1:09.7

Mako Nagasawa, amazing person,

1:12.9

theologian, runs an organization called the Anastasis Center, and this is all about restorative

1:19.3

justice and healing atonement. This might blow your mind, but did you know that penal substitutionary

1:24.7

atonement is not only one out of several different atonement theories

1:29.7

throughout church history, it is arguably the most recent atonement theory in church history.

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