Hello and welcome to the psychology podcast with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, where we give

you insights into the mind, brain, behavior, and creativity. Each episode will feature a new

guest who will stimulate your mind and give you a greater understanding of yourself, others, and the world we live in.

Hopefully we'll also provide a glimpse into human possibility.

Thanks for listening and enjoy the podcast. guest. David Birkkkkis is a best-selling author and award-winning podcaster and associate professor of management at oral Roberts University.

David is a regular contributor to the Harvard Business Review in Forbes.

A popular corporate speaker, he's consulted with all kinds of companies, from startups to Fortune 500 companies.

His latest book is under new management, how leading organizations are upending business as usual.

Thank you so much David for talking to me today.

Scott, thank you so much for talking to me.

And thank you for making me sound way cooler than I am, by the way, in that bio.

Thank you.

You are, if anything, understated.

Like I feel like in the inside flap of your book it says

something like he's a slowly rising superstar like I thought it was funny the

way you were to that. So let me tell you the real story because this is the only

podcast where listeners will actually understand that I actually intentionally

put in a word in there and it's funny that you mentioned it so they had you know

the bio that the publisher wrote was you you know, David Burgess is blah blah blah blah,

highly regarded influential business school, whatever. And I remember this really cool study that

basically showed that people disproportionately weight potential over sort of like proven ability like

we're more likely to pick somebody who's the next somebody than the person and so I

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