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Gender: A Wider Lens

39 - Nonbinary Identities

Gender: A Wider Lens

Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley

Health & Fitness, Society & Culture, Mental Health

4.6961 Ratings

🗓️ 3 September 2021

⏱️ 65 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

With the invention of the term “nonbinary,” we’ve seen an unprecedented number of young people claiming to feel like neither a man nor a woman. Today, we explore Ian Hacking’s concept of “making people up” and the creation of new classifications and “types” of people. Several questions also arise: does a non-binary identification require medicalization? What personality traits may correlate with this identity and is it different in males and females? For parents, how might one respond when a timid child quietly says “No” to the “gender binary?” And what role does non-binary label play as individuals step in and step out of trans identification?

Links:

Gender Census: Gendercensus.com/results/2021-worldwide/#pronouns

Kori and Searyl Doty: Theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/08/parent-raising-gender-free-child

Jamie Shupe: Theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/16/jamie-shupe-first-non-binary-person-oregon

Jamie Shupe: Twitter.com/notabledesister

Lisa Shupe interviewed on Transparency Podcast: Youtube.com/watch?v=edzyk-TQhEY

Sam Smith: Theguardian.com/music/2019/sep/13/sam-smith-on-being-non-binary-im-changing-my-pronouns-to-theythem

Sam Smith and Alok: Mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/sam-smith-alok-vaid-menon-20126943

Alice Hope’s YouTube video: Youtube.com/watch?v=9WJBp3eEhqY


Extended Notes:

  • Parents feel so old when the term “nonbinary” gets thrown around. What does it mean?
  • Sasha gives a bit of context and the definition of the word.
  • Nonbinary people have an element of protest. They’re completely opting out of the “normal.”
  • The term “nonbinary” really started picking up speed in 2014 and having it skyrocket in 2019.
  • Are nonbinary identities just a stepping stone into trans identity?
  • A lot of nonbinary females think they should have top surgery, which helps them with their image that they’re in this “neither/or” gender space.
  • Can you inflict your ideologies on a little child? Stella feels like the answer should be no.
  • There is controversy on listing two mothers or two fathers on the birth certificate. It’s a bit like stretching the truth/reality.
  • The average 14-year-old female calls herself nonbinary. What’s going on here?
  • Are our sexual differences causing distress among teenagers? Do they wish for a simpler time where none of this gender stuff matters?
  • It’s a bit of a confusing thing, you shouldn’t go by looks but a lot of these gender identities use looks as a baseline.
  • Can you be nonbinary while also looking very female or very male?
  • How do you know if something is a singular and not a plural when you’re using the “they” pronoun.
  • How do parents manage other children who are calling themselves they/them?
  • Sasha wonders if saying you’re nonbinary is due to some uneasiness that’s happening in their lives, some form of trauma or unhappiness...

    This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com/subscribe

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

You're listening to gender, a wider lens.

0:04.0

I'm Stella O'Malley, a psychotherapist in Ireland.

0:06.5

And I'm Sasha Ayad, an adolescent therapist in the United States.

0:10.6

Since 2016, my practice has been exclusively dedicated to gender questioning teens

0:16.1

and families impacted by gender dysphoria. I also work with gender questioning

0:20.7

teenagers and I facilitated support meetings for families and

0:24.2

individuals who have been impacted by gender issues. We're curious about the

0:28.1

concept of gender and how it's unfolding in the wider culture. Join us as we look at gender through a wider lens.

0:35.0

Hi, Sessa.

0:38.0

Hi Stella, how's it going today?

0:41.0

Good, non-binary. Yeah, we are going to be talking about non-binary

0:47.7

identities today and I don't know about you but parents always ask me about this because they see their kids

0:56.2

Experimenting with different pronouns and names and sometimes they'll see that a young person announces on their social media account that I'm non-binary and parents are like well what what is that exactly?

1:07.6

So I think this is really relevant theme in the culture right now and I don't think we could talk about trans identities

1:14.8

without talking about non-binary. It almost feels like the the symbolic word

1:20.2

for this generation. It's the kind of it's a key kind of like when you're in this generation you talk

1:27.6

about non-binary in a very easy way like my kids would and it never before in our consciousness and it really makes

1:36.3

everybody over a certain age just feel old it really does feel as I'd

1:41.6

geisty yes definitely It really does feel zeitgeisty. Yes, definitely.

1:44.0

So I guess we can start by saying that we're going to have a lot of analysis of what we think about this

1:52.0

as therapists and as people who are kind of looking

1:54.8

from that bird's eye view but maybe we can start with what do non-binary people

...

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