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the Hello and welcome to another episode of Politics Theory Other. My name is Alex Doherty and today I'm joined by Kojo Karam. We'll be talking about the politics of the Tory Brexiteers, why it is that the prospect of trading on WTO terms is so attractive to them.

And we'll also be chatting about the idea of a progressive English nationalism.

As always, you can listen to PTO on SoundCloud, iTunes, ACAST and all other good podcast apps. And you can also

follow the show on Facebook and Twitter. The handle is at Poll Theory Other. And if you've been

enjoying the show, please do consider rating or reviewing it on iTunes. Kojo Karam teaches at

Birkbeck School of Law at the University of London. He writes on law, race and empire.

He's written on Brexit for publications such as The Guardian, The Nation and Dissent magazine,

and you can find links to some of those articles in the description of today's episode.

He'll be publishing a book called The War on Drugs and the Global Color Line, which will be

coming out later this

month.

In your recent article in dissent, you point out the way in which advocates of a hard Brexit,

which would mean Britain trading on WTO terms, the way that their argument has kind of shifted

in recent months from the standard claim that a hard Brexit would yield

immediate economic benefits to instead to these suggestions that a hard Brexit would perhaps

indeed result in a crisis, but one that would unite the country under a return to the blitz

spirit, to quote a Times article that you referred to. Why do you think we've seen this rhetorical shift

and what do you think it tells us about the nature of the Brexit project?

I think that there's been this shift and the rhetoric

...