Hello, friends, me again.

Mike Rowe with another episode of the way I heard it, specifically, episode number 389.

My guest is Gavin DeBekker.

And the name of this episode is you can learn a lot in a smoke-filled airplane.

Because according to Gavin, you can.

And Chuck, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced he's right.

I'm convinced he's right, not just about the airplane, but about the snarling dogs and the simulated ammunition

and the important business of training the next generation of experts in the wild and woolly world of personal protection.

You will get shot.

That's what he said.

It's a non-lethal bullet, but you're going to get shot in his classroom.

He runs a security firm to, who would you say, to people who need it, politicians, persons.

Well, he got famous.

I mean, gosh, the guy has guarded and protected so many people, presidents, public figures.

I think it was Sheena Easton, Olivia Newton-John, Cher.

There's a long list of people.

And today, he's looking after what you call Titans of Industry.

Yeah.

I met Gavin about four months ago over the phone after you'll recall some protracted

conversations with a presidential candidate named Robert Kennedy Jr.

Okay.

Yeah.

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