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The New Evangelicals Podcast

381. The Dark Side of Charisma

The New Evangelicals Podcast

Tim Whitaker

News, Religion & Spirituality, Politics, Christianity

4.6936 Ratings

🗓️ 2 June 2025

⏱️ 68 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this episode, Tim interviews Molly Worthen, author of 'Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump.' They explore the concept of charisma, its historical significance, and its role in both religious and political leadership. Worthen shares her unique journey to evangelicalism and discusses how charisma has been a driving force in shaping American history, from the Puritans to contemporary figures like Trump and Rush Limbaugh. The conversation delves into the dual nature of charisma, its moral neutrality, and its impact on social movements and media. Molly's Faculty Page Molly's Author Page Chapters 02:49 Molly Worthen's Journey to Evangelicalism 09:07 The Evolution of Charisma Through History 14:55 Charisma in Political Leadership 27:12 Rush Limbaugh and the Age of Gurus 39:00 Trump's Charisma and Political Strategy 46:32 The Role of Storytelling in Politics 52:12 Navigating the Landscape of Christian Nationalism 01:01:18 Understanding the Complexity of Voter Behavior ____________________________________________________ ⁠⁠you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. This show is produced by Josh Gilbert Media | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Joshgilbertmedia.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:29.8

You're listening to the new Evangelicals Talks.

0:46.6

I'm Tim, the host of this segment.

0:49.0

Join us every Monday as we talk to all different kinds of people at the intersection

0:52.9

of theology, politics,

0:54.5

and culture, helping you navigate a better path forward in your faith.

1:03.7

Hello, friends. Welcome back to the podcast. Happy Monday. Also, if my audio sounds weird,

1:09.2

it's because I'm recording on my phone because I am out of

1:11.9

town at the moment. So on this episode, I interviewed Molly Worthen. She wrote a book called

1:17.8

Spellbound, How Charismist Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump. This is a fascinating

1:24.0

conversation because it talks about an angle of the rise of Trump in a way that I don't

1:29.3

think we've ever talked about on the show before and that is charisma. What is charisma and what

1:33.9

makes people want to follow leaders both good and bad? So I think you're going to really enjoy

1:38.4

this conversation. Molly's a very unique guest with a very unique story. I'm not going to spoil it. I'll let her say it on the

1:45.9

episode and then you can make your own judgment. But either way, I'm so, so, so happy that she came on.

1:51.9

Friends, as always, thank you so much for being here at Means the World. Hey, we are currently in

1:56.7

the middle of planning. What we're calling is TNE 2.0. I just got back from LA meeting with my team

2:02.2

to think about the future of the organization, our mission, and what we're going to be doing.

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