Welcome to the tech policy podcast, your source for policy, rants, and raves from tech freedom,

your Washington, D.C. advocate for the freedom to tinker and innovate.

I'm Evan Swartzchab, your host. On today's show, Social Media and Terror terrorism. ISIS and other radical groups are using

social media to recruit members to their causes. What role should tech companies and governments

have in fighting radicalization online? Joining me to discuss this is Morgan Wright, a cybersecurity

analyst for major media outlets in the U.S. and a senior fellow at the Center for Digital

Government. He has testified before Congress on major issues of cybersecurity. Morgan, thank you for

joining me. Evan, thanks for having me on. This will be fun. So, Morgan, how are terrorist groups

using social media to recruit members? They, to put it, since you like that you talk about just having a little fun here,

they are kicking our butt on social media.

They understand the power of propaganda.

They understand the power of story.

I'll tell you, a good friend of mine named Carmine Gallo just released a book called The

Storyteller's Secret.

He's written some great books about the power of TED Talks, things like that.

And I'm telling you, these folks have followed the narrative. They understand what it takes to get people's attention,

to keep it and to take action on it. They use a variety of channels. And I'll tell you what

concerns me most about this is that they are more, they are so effective, disproportionate to their

size. You think that for what they can do, they should be much bigger,

but they're really not. So their online presence is extremely effective. And we as the U.S. and the

intelligence committee are having a difficult time countering the narrative. And is there a way of

figuring out just how effective they are at this? I mean, how many fighters do they recruit just by

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