#366 — Urban Warfare 2.0

Making Sense with Sam Harris

Waking Up with Sam Harris

Samharris, Currentevents, Politics, Ethics, Religion, Neuroscience, Science, Society & Culture, Philosophy

4.6 • 29.1K Ratings

🗓️ 7 May 2024

⏱️ 99 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sam Harris speaks with John Spencer about the reality of urban warfare and Israel's conduct in the war in Gaza. They discuss the nature of the Hamas attacks on October 7th, what was most surprising about the Hamas videos, the difficulty in distinguishing Hamas from the rest of the population, combatants as a reflection of a society's values, how many people have been killed in Gaza, the proportion of combatants and noncombatants, the double standards to which the IDF is held, the worst criticism that can be made of Israel and the IDF, intentions vs results, what is unique about the war in Gaza, Hamas's use of human shields, what it would mean to defeat Hamas, what the IDF has accomplished so far, the destruction of the Gaza tunnel system, the details of underground warfare, the rescue of hostages, how noncombatants become combatants, how difficult it is to interpret videos of combat, what victory would look like, the likely aftermath of the war, war with Hezbollah, Iran's attack on Israel, what to do about Iran, and other topics.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	And the Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris.
0:25.0	Well, it's been pretty crazy out there on college campuses.
0:30.0	I will have much more to say about that shortly, but today I'm bringing you a
0:35.0	podcast that I promised in a previous episode where I said I would talk to someone
0:40.2	who is an expert in urban warfare who could help me analyze just what has gone on in Gaza.
0:47.0	Today I'm speaking with John Spencer.
0:50.0	John currently serves as the chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point.
0:56.0	He is the co-director of the Urban Warfare Project and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast. He's also a founding member of the International Working Group on Sub-Turanian
1:06.3	Warfare. John served 25 years in the Army, having held ranks from private to Sergeant First Class and Second Lieutenant to Major.
1:17.2	He was an active duty Army officer during two combat tours in Iraq. His research focuses on military operations in dense urban
1:25.9	areas, mega cities, and urban and subterranean warfare. John also holds a master of
1:31.7	policy management from Georgetown University and his writing has appeared in the New York Times
1:37.8	The Wall Street Journal the Washington Post foreign policy and many other publications.
1:44.0	And he is the author of the book, Understanding Urban Warfare.
1:48.0	John and I cover Israel's response to October 7th from top to bottom, we discuss the nature of Hamas's attacks on
1:55.8	October 7th, what was most surprising about them, the difficulty in distinguishing
2:00.9	Hamas from the rest of the population in Gaza,
2:04.0	combatants as a reflection of a society's values,
2:07.3	how many people have been killed so far in Gaza,
2:10.6	the proportion of combatants and non-combatants, the double standards to which the IDF is held,
2:16.0	the worst criticism that can be made of Israel and the IDF so far,
2:21.0	intentions versus results, What is unique about the war in Gaza?
	...

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