I'm Ben Sawyer and this is the road to now.

Today on the show, we keep the conversation going.

U.S. policy in Latin America.

Our guest is Michelle Perenzino.

Michelle is the T.C.

SAS chair in maritime irregular warfare and associate professor of strategy and policy at the

U.S. Naval War College. So she knows her stuff. And if you enjoyed our conversation about the

Monroe Doctrine last week, I think you're going to love this because the contrast here, as we'll talk

about, is between the rhetoric, how do presidents evoke the Monroe Doctrine,

and the actual impact of policy on the ground, the way that essentially U.S. foreign policy

affects the people who are on the other end of it.

And I think those of you guys who want to stay focused and learn about U.S. foreign policy,

and particularly where what happened in Venezuela fits in the

greater story of American policy in Latin America, you've got something here. Before we get to the

conversation, I should say now, as a disclaimer, the views expressed by Dr. Perenzino are her own and

do not reflect the views of her employer or any other part of the U.S. government. So that should be clear. You know what else should

be clear? Our gratitude. Patrons. Thank you for supporting the show. Patreon.com slash the road to now

if you want to support us. If you can't, that's okay. But those of you guys who are, we are so grateful.

Now, on to our conversation with Michelle Perrenzino. I hope you have a great week.

Michelle Peranzino, welcome to The Road to Now. Hi, Ben. Thanks so much for having me on the show.

I'm really thrilled to be here. No problem. I got to say, just a little background. I actually know

Michelle from back in the Russia days. And I was looking for someone to do this exact topic. And I sat down on my computer. And I got an email from you. You have a different last name now, so I didn't immediately recognize it. But I did look up your credentials. And I was like, wow, this person is at the Naval War College, T.C. Sash, chair,

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