Hey, everyone, it's Reed. Before we get started, I just want you to understand that what we're

fighting is multi-front battle. There will be the airwaves, there will be the internet, there will be

neighborhoods and town hall meetings, but all of it matters. It all ladders up to making sure that

if we've done our part in our cities, in our counties, in our states, that we will be victorious in November. I thank you so much for listening. I hope you share this podcast with your friends, your families, and your colleagues, and anybody who wants to know more about this fight. Thanks, everybody for listening. And now on with the show.

Welcome back to the Lincoln Project. I'm your host, Reed Galen. Today, I'm joined by attorney,

author, and professor Barbara McQuay. She is a professor at the University of Michigan Law School, Go Blue, also her alma mater, where she teaches courses in criminal law, criminal procedure, national security, and data privacy. Wow, we could do hours just on those bar. She's also a legal analyst for NBC News and MSNBC and a co-host of the podcast, Sisters in Law. From 2010 to 2017, Barb served as U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. Her new book, a New York Times bestseller, is Attack from Within,

how disinformation is sabotaging America and is available wherever fine books are sold.

Today, she's coming to us from an absolutely awesome town, Ann Arbor, Michigan. Barb, welcome.

Thanks very much, Reed, and go blue to you. Go blue. All right. Yeah, it was a big year. So let's go from that beautiful, you know, appreciation of the University of Michigan and all things blue to misinformation, disinformation. So I think sometimes, Barb, it's a good reminder. We're so inundated by

information all the time. Things just coming at us. Help us, you know, redefine disinformation

so that we just all are clear about what it means. Yeah, you know, and certainly you're right about

information overload. And I think that's one of our challenges today. But I define the terms in my book, you know, and certainly you're right about information overload, and I think that's one of

our challenges today.

But I define the terms in my book.

You know, I know sometimes people use the terms disinformation and misinformation interchangeably,

but I want to talk about them in different ways.

And so in the book, I define them differently.

One, disinformation I define as the deliberate use of lies, misleading statements, deception to manipulate

people or to advance some agenda.

Misinformation is sort of its unwitting cousin.

When we read or see or hear something that is false and we believe it to be true and we

repeat it, I tell a story in a book about a time I fell for

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