Thanks for listening to the Doctor Drew Podcast on Podcast One.

Hey, welcome to Doctor Drew Podcast.

Of course all the swinging sounds and support those that support us.

Thank you for your patience in listening to the problems we put through.

These are people we are pleased to have this part of the show and allow us to do it and keep doing it.

And allow me to talk to some of my heroes from that guy.

Today is no exception.

Dr. Keith Humphries, you can follow him at Keith N Humphries, H-U-M-P-H-R-E-Y-S.

Professor and Section Director of Mental Health Policy, Department of Psychiatry, Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University.

Dr. Humphries, am I getting all your titles correct? I mean there's so many of them.

Which is your standout title now?

You're very kind I have to say. But yes, you've got all my titles correct and I appreciate the chance to talk to you.

This is a good, this is one of my senior research career scientists at the VA Health Center, research center in Palo Alto.

And I'm not, I'm almost overwhelmed. I don't know where to start.

Let me just say that I probably, my last contact with you was listening to your lecture to the California Society of Addiction Medicine.

I think it's now, you're in a half ago, maybe two years ago, in which you laid out a very cohesive argument about the importance of mutual aid societies.

I've had the privilege of speaking to John Kelly also and I know he's got a big, a conference study about to be released.

Hopefully, any day I cannot wait. But I'm hoping you'd review some of that for my audience.

Yeah, sure. So groups like Alcoa Xanonymous, I mean, beginning of my career, which is now, you know, quite a while ago, were seen kind of dismissively by a lot of my colleagues.

And also by me, I picked that attitude up from them, you know, that they were, you know, they don't have degrees, they don't have training, they don't standardize, they have these folky slogans, and it all seems kind of hokey and all that.

But, you know, the purpose of science is to teach us things, including things that may clash with our prejudices.

And, you know, I've done a lot of work, John Kelly does a lot of work, other scientists like Bill Miller, a very eminent guy, studied Alcoa Xanonymous over many years.

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