Hello, everyone, watching on the YouTube platform and associated podcasts.

I'm here today with Roy Sabag, who I met about a year and a half ago, continuing my investigation

into the field of economics, I suppose, in monetary policy, monetary conceptualization

as well, something I'm woefully undereducated in relationship to.

Roy's had a remarkable career as an entrepreneur, businessman, and as a thinker, he's recently

published a book, The Natural Order of Money, which is what we're going to talk about today,

trying to puzzle through just exactly what constitutes money and how it might be productively contemplated

psychologically, biologically, to some degree, at least in terms of its potential biological

implications, economically, sociologically, philosophically, theologically, we're going

to try to cover all the bases as Roy's book does.

And so I thought we'd begin this conversation by having Roy talk about his background so

that all of you who are listening have some reason to understand why he's doing what

he's doing and perhaps why his ideas might be regarded as compelling and credible.

Yeah, so Roy, we met a year and a half ago.

You started to talk to me about the thought that you've put into the idea of money for

really, for, was decades, really.

And then you handed me this manuscript, which was an early version of the book, and we've

been talking about it to some degree ever since, or a variance of it.

So through your, the history of the development of your businesses so people can get an idea

of the range of activities that you engaged in.

So what, what did you start with on the entrepreneurial front?

The first thing I started with an entrepreneurial front was actually buying and selling physical

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