Oh, Welcome to Within Reason. My name is Alex O'Connor and my guest today is Michael Jones.

Michael Jones is the founder and host of the inspiring philosophy

YouTube channel which covers the history and philosophy

of the Christian religion. Michael thanks for being here.

Yeah, thanks for having me. We've locked horns before I think we've debated at least once maybe a couple

more times. Twice. I think probably most recently was the capturing Christianity debate where we talked

about the problem of evil right?, we were on his channel twice,

first over the moral argument than the problem of evil.

That's right.

So we've done what I think is probably the biggest philosophical objection that people have to Christianity see but also

theism in general which is the problem of evil I would imagine but I invited you on today to talk about what I think is in many ways the biggest moral objection to Christianity.

That is people who are trying to make a critique, not of the truth of Christianity per se,

but of its sort of moral quality, will often point to a particular doctrine that throughout

the history of Christianity has been used and abused by many to scare the uh scare the daylights out of some of its adherents.

Listeners will not be surprised to learn that I'm talking about the doctrine of hell.

Something that you've produced a couple of videos on and have talked

about in the past. So I'm interested in learning what you think about hell, what you think the

Bible says about hell, and whether you think that the doctrine of hell can be justified.

So welcome to the show and perhaps I can begin by asking against the, some would say caricatures,

some would say sort of metaphorical imagery that we see in the history of the church

What do you think is an accurate depiction of what the Christian doctrine of hell is?

Well, I think that's a pretty good question to start with it's a it's not

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