If you challenge people's beliefs too much, they will probably think you're an asshole.

I think of it as a credibility bank, that every time you validate someone's beliefs, you're putting money into that bank.

Every time you challenge them, you're making a withdrawal from that bank.

Yeah. Hey, Finn, happy to have you on the show. Your background is really unique in that you spent over 15 years as a designer working

with some really big brands.

But I think you came to this point in which you thought maybe design

wasn't it for you and you very kind of unusually got a degree in business. So when we talk about

the business to design, the design of business, I think you're the living embodiment of that.

I learned business through my coach and mentor, but you actually went to get a degree in it.

So there's lots of things I want to get into it with you.

So for people who don't know who you are, can you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit of your story about how you got here?

Sure. My name is Finn McKenzie. Everybody probably knows that. Most people know me from YouTube. I have two channels. One is called the punk rock MBA where I talk about kind of music history stuff.

Another one is just my name where I talk about sort of like it's Twitch highlights, just sort of like more fun, silly music kind of content. But like you said, I didn't start YouTube until I was 38. So we both started a lot later than most people do. Before that, I spent my career and I still do like product design and marketing.

And most people know me as a YouTuber, but I would consider myself a designer and

marketer first and foremost.

And one of the reasons I've always been drawn to your content is like, to me, there's

no distinction between product design and marketing.

And like, it's all the same thing. thing it's like what are we going to make

and how do we get people to buy it and so my brain probably thinks about design a little bit

differently than most people's does but that's how I think of myself like you said sort of my

career I think the first time anybody paid me to do design was 1999.

So unfortunately, I'm also old.

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