#321 - Kim Jong Un Psychological Profiler on China & Most DISTURBING Patient | Ken Dekleva

Julian Dorey Podcast

Julian Dorey

Comedy

4.6 • 913 Ratings

🗓️ 20 July 2025

⏱️ 187 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

SPONSORS: 1) MANDO: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code JULIAN at https://shopmando.com ! #mando (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Dr. Kenneth Dekleva is a former physician-diplomat with the U.S. State Department and a Professor of Psychiatry at UT Southwestern Medical Center. He is also a senior fellow at the George H. W. Bush Foundation for U.S.-China Relations and the author of two novels, The Negotiator’s Cross and The Last Violinist. PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey KEN's LINKS - IG: https://www.instagram.com/thecipherbrief/# - X: https://x.com/thecipherbrief - WEBSITE: https://www.thecipherbrief.com/experts/kenneth-dekleva - KEN WORK: https://www.blackwoodadvisorysolutions.com/ FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 – Ken’s Past Guests, Role in State Admissions, Starting in Moscow, Truth About US Diplomats Abroad 09:23 – Intro to Psychiatry, Jim Grigson, Forensic Evaluation Techniques 20:45 – Ken’s Most Intense Case, Prison Psychiatry Reality, Core Philosophy: “Nothing Human is Alien,” Language Shifts in Interviews 32:45 – Having Empathy for Monsters, Emotional Toll, Testifying in Child Abuse Trials, Evaluating Inmates for Release 41:24 – Causes of Predatory Urges, Shocking Classmate Reveal, Reconciling Faith with Catholic Abuse Scandals 49:33 – POW Camp Stories, Parents Meeting Post-WWII, Love for Language and History 57:35 – Why Psychiatry, Ken’s Biggest Influence, Most Brilliant Interviewer Ever Met 01:07:31 – Trait of Elite Interviewers, Joining State Department 01:15:47 – First Day in Moscow, Love for Russia, Stress of Diplomatic Work 01:26:41 – Why People Distrust Psychiatrists, Balancing Career & Marriage Abroad 01:32:51 – Benefits for Kids Raised Overseas 01:37:06 – Havana Diplomats, Monthly Parties, Falling Into Geopolitics 01:47:49 – Presenting with Jerrold Post, Karadžić’s Shift, T4 Program, Why Humans Commit Atrocities 01:59:02 – Studying Putin, Evil in Human Nature, Social Media’s Dark Path 02:03:27 – Challenging Radical Beliefs, Stalin’s Hero Revival, Is Kim Jong Un Rational?, What Worries Ken 02:18:01 – Profiling Xi Jinping, His Father’s Story, Rumors of Xi’s Fall, China’s AI Race 02:26:25 – Retaining Foreign Talent, New Cold War, Kai-Fu Lee, National Space Heroes 02:35:32 – The Most Evil Mind Ken Studied, Guardrails for Social Media, Youth Mental Health, COVID Fallout 02:45:52 – Staying Tied to Government, Working with Cancer Patients, Human Side of Medicine, Does Ken Fear Death? CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian Dorey - Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 321 - Ken Dekleva Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Let me tell you a story. The first two cases I ever testified were capital murder cases.
0:04.8	One was a serial killer and the other was a psychopathic deal who had kidnapped and murdered
0:10.2	and mutilated this person. I spent 10 hours with this guy, wrote my report and told the attorney,
0:15.5	do not put your defendant on the stand. The jury's going to barbecue. And he took the stand.
0:20.0	He got 99 years.
0:21.4	You know, in the jail, I would talk to people, how do you interview a criminal? Well, there was a
0:25.1	patient who had been on the ward for quite some time and had obsessional, psychotic kind of
0:29.3	fantasies of wanting to murder his parents. Fill his room with reasons why they deserve death.
0:35.1	But he wouldn't talk to him. So guest interviewers said, I wonder what it's like to want to murder your parents every day of your life. The patient started sobbing, and then he talked. I was blown away. Who's the most evil person you ever studied? That's a good one. I was asked once in the jail to evaluate a guy who would... Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a
0:58.0	five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. Ken, you were braving the Newark airport problems this morning.
1:14.8	I was getting nervous.
1:15.6	You weren't going to get here.
1:16.5	Sorry about that.
1:17.4	No, made it just fine.
1:18.7	Thank you.
1:19.8	It was like I bought your ticket, I think, three days before suddenly all, what was it,
1:25.4	deep, like 100 air traffic controllers walked off and there was one guy left.
1:29.3	We were like, oh boy, let's hope our people get in here, but we've been okay.
1:34.5	That's good. I made it safely. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
1:37.6	Of course. Of course. So you come highly recommended by Shawnee, Matt, and the Mad Dog Jim Lawler as well. It sounds like you had
1:47.5	quite the different kind of career than they did working within the government. Yeah,
1:52.4	that's correct. They were they were case officers for different intelligence agencies,
	...

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