We're not our best selves that either of the lows or the highs. At these lows, we tend to meet decisions out of fear.

And at those highs, we tend to falsely attribute the things that we did to the things that weren't.

Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits.

This is on trade leadership. Now, here's your host, Ken Coleman.

Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders, by-leaders, four leaders.

Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Our feature conversation is with Scott Belzky.

And we've got the Summit Backstage Pass. Well, let's start off with Scott Belzky.

Scott's one of the most, I think, bright thinkers in the country.

The guy has been somebody that I followed for a very long time. He's got a new book out called The Messy Middle,

Finding Your Way Through The Hardest and Most Crucial Part of Any Bold Project or New Venture.

He's currently the Chief Product Officer for Adobe and Executive Vice President of Creative Cloud,

and of course, a best-selling author. If you're one of those folks that likes to go back and kind of tie in the episodes,

he returns to us. Of course, this episode, but he was on episode 192.

So, without any further ado, here is my conversation with Scott Belzky.

It's always fun to talk to you, Scott. In fact, it's almost eight, nine years ago

that we first met a catalyst podcast program that I was hosting at the time.

And I'm so excited about this book, specifically the topic The Messy Middle,

because you shared this concept with me that many years ago.

And I think it's absolutely brilliant. And I think it's a vital conversation that we've got to have.

So, before we dive into the book and the content, we've got to start with what is The Messy Middle?

You know, I think a lot of the greatest projects are inspired by a sense of frustration.

And for me, my frustration was with our obsession with the starts and finishes of everything.

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