I dreamt that you were twisting through seven suns of gold and the gypsy was insisting

their story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hello, everybody.

And welcome to the Soapurfull podcast.

I am joined today by Dr. Fred Luskin and Lyndon Harris.

Welcome to the show, guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So the reason that I wanted to get these two lovely chaps on

is they have written a book called The Forgive for Good Recovery Workbook.

And it's a book about forgiveness and particularly for people with a substance use

disorder. First of all, like, how did you meet? Gosh, we met right after 9-11 through a mutual friend,

Rod Bextram. I did a lot of work after 9-11, Ground Zero, New York, and my life fell apart.

And Rod told me, said, well, you know, I think you need to forgive these guys.

And I said, what?

I was livid.

He said, well, I got a guy I want to introduce you to.

So Fred and I met, and we actually did a workshop together. Fred led it, of course, for 9-11 family members who had lost loved one on the day. And remember that, Fred, we were in New York at your friend's house who was the Grammy Award winning musical producer.

I can't remember the names, but that was a long time ago.

That's a long time ago.

Yeah, yeah.

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