Hi, it's Fraser here. You're about to hear a conversation I had with Helen Joyce. This was recorded for Spiked YouTube channel.

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They've made it taboo to speak about material reality.

Young people today think identities and what you identify as is unbelievably important.

In schools, children are taught that what makes you a boy or a girl is what you feel like, how do you know what you feel like? You compare it to stereotypes.

It's sexist, it's misogynistic.

If you're really very gender non-conforming when you're little.

You're like 20 times more likely to grow up gay,

but those are the people who are now being told they're probably girls.

This is modern conversion therapy.

Hello, I'm Fraser My as Deputy Editor of Spiked, and I'm delighted to be joined in conversation with Helen Joyce.

Helen, you've written the excellent book, Trans When ideology meets reality, your director of advocacy at sex matters.

Now the conversation around trans can often seem quite odd to a lot of people.

It can be quite amusing.

I mean just in the week that we're recording this, there's a story about employment

tribunal involving a gender fluid dachshund.

You often hear about breastfeeding men or academics claiming that Jesus was transgender or Joan of Arc was non-binary.

But there is actually something quite serious about this movement.

At what point did you realize this was something that you wanted to take on and confront?

Well I was asked to write about it in 2017 at the time I was a journalist at the economist and I edited the

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