290. Douglas Murray & Jonathan Pageau

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

DailyWire+

Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.6 • 34.5K Ratings

🗓️ 22 September 2022

⏱️ 92 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: https://utm.io/ueSXh Jonathan Pageau, Douglas Murray, and Dr Jordan B Peterson discuss our hierarchies of perception, existence, faith, and whether meaning is a self evident truth or something intangible that is sought in vain. Jonathan Pageau is a French-Canadian liturgical artist and icon carver, known for his work featured in museums across the world. He carves Eastern Orthodox and other traditional images, and teaches an online carving class. He also runs a YouTube channel dedicated to the exploration of symbolism across history and religion. Douglas Murray is a British political commentator and author. In 2007 he founded a think tank called the Center for Social Cohesion, which later became part of the Henry Jackson Society. Currently he is an associate editor for the magazine the Spectator, where he became somewhat infamous after organizing a competition in which entrants were invited to submit offensive poems about Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, with a top prize of £1,000. He has authored five books, the most recent of which being “The War on the West.” —Links— For Douglass Murray: Website: https://douglasmurray.net/ (Book) The War on the West: https://www.amazon.com/War-West-Douglas-Murray/dp/0063162024/ (Book) The Strange Death of Europe: https://www.amazon.com/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity-ebook/dp/B07J4G6P1T/ref=sr_1_1?crid=IZ93P44GH6II&keywords=the+strange+death+of+europe&qid=1663609075&s=digital-text&sprefix=the+strange+death+of+europe%2Cdigital-text%2C75&sr=1-1 For Jonathan Pageau: Icon Carving: http://www.pageaucarvings.com Podcast: www.thesymbolicworld.com Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/JonathanPageau —Chapters— (0:00) Coming Up (1:10) Intro (4:18) A Precondition for a Rational World View (10:29) The Battle of Conceptions (14:55) Perceived Unity and the Glass (21:58) Do Science and Religion Overlap? (29:41) The Hierarchy of Perception and Action (38:45) The Bible Was Not Written Forensically (48:25) Using the Least Possible Thing to Describe the Realness of Everything (57:07) Are We Meaning-Seeking Beings, or is There Meaning? (1:05:56) To What Degree Does Something Exist Prior to Elaboration? (1:12:04) The Cause of Demoralization in Our Society (1:17:58) The Advantage of Organized Religion // SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL // Newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/jordanbpeterson.com/youtubesignup Donations: https://jordanbpeterson.com/donate // COURSES // Discovering Personality: https://jordanbpeterson.com/personality Self Authoring Suite: https://selfauthoring.com Understand Myself (personality test): https://understandmyself.com // BOOKS // Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life: https://jordanbpeterson.com/Beyond-Order 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: https://jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-for-life Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief: https://jordanbpeterson.com/maps-of-meaning // LINKS // Website: https://jordanbpeterson.com Events: https://jordanbpeterson.com/events Blog: https://jordanbpeterson.com/blog Podcast: https://jordanbpeterson.com/podcast // SOCIAL // Twitter: https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson Instagram: https://instagram.com/jordan.b.peterson Facebook: https://facebook.com/drjordanpeterson Telegram: https://t.me/DrJordanPeterson All socials: https://linktr.ee/drjordanbpeterson #JordanPeterson #JordanBPeterson #DrJordanPeterson #DrJordanBPeterson #DailyWirePlus

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello everyone watching and listening. I'm very excited today to bring to you two of my favorite people
0:22.6	I would say Douglas Murray and Jonathan Pazio, I wanted to bring the three of us together
0:30.0	to talk about the underlying metaphysical and theological substrate, if any, that constitutes
0:37.6	the precondition for classic conservatism, small ill liberalism, and maybe enlightenment
0:44.3	rationality, as well as, let's say, classic Western religious belief, which is sort of obviously
0:51.2	linked to that underlying metaphysic, or maybe the substrate for it.
0:55.9	I got interested in talking to Douglas about this because we've been talking over a couple
0:59.7	of years, and he's become more convinced, I suppose, or at least curious about the relationship
1:07.2	between pure rationality and an ethic that might be associated with pure enlightenment
1:13.5	rationality, and the relationship between that and an underlying substrate of fiction or
1:19.1	narrative or perhaps religious belief.
1:22.7	And I couldn't think of anybody better to talk about that with than Jonathan Pazio.
1:27.2	I've been speaking with Jonathan many times, particularly with John Vervecki, or at
1:32.1	least occasionally with John Vervecki, who's a cognitive scientist who's also interested
1:35.8	in the same things.
1:37.5	And so I thought we'd have a chance today to delve deeply into the bottom of things on
1:44.7	the political and conceptual and philosophical front.
1:47.8	And so I'll start with the brief bio, both of Mr. Murray and Mr. Pazio.
1:52.5	And then I'll ask Douglas about his comments and his thinking on this front, because I
1:58.2	know to some degree his thinking has started to shift and change.
2:02.6	So maybe he can outline what he did think and what he now thinks, and then we'll enter
2:06.5	into a follow-up conversation.
	...

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