So of course we need to get the taxes right, wealth tax, land tax, capital gains, corporate, but we should also make sure that when governments are speaking to businesses, they don't get kind of bullied if you change the tax or intellectual property rights and I'm leaving. As soon as you fail, you're in the front page of the paper. Yeah. Whereas venture capital as an entrepreneur is love it when they fail because then they say, look, yeah, I had to fail ten times to succeed. That's why I'm a risk taker. We don't allow that learning by doing.

And that's why I've been helping countries think about Gov Labs.

Like how do you create a laboratory within a government, even a local government, that actually explicitly

welcomes risk-taking experimentation and trial and error to learn how to do things better?

You know, you are broadly talking about the dismantling of the Western way of doing things.

So I'm glad you put it that way because...

This episode is brought to you by Octopus Energy.

Greg Jackson, the CEO, is with us now.

So Greg, I've got a question for you.

Is it true that by 2040 in China,

there will be no petrol stations because everyone will be driving electric cars? Yeah. Crazy as it

seems, the Chinese state oil company, the one in charge of its petrol stations, is planning on

having none by 2040. If you visit China today,

what's really striking is the roads are quiet. I mean, all of the two-wheeled vehicles that

used to pump out pollution and noise are now electric, pretty much all the taxis, buses,

increasingly more than half the private cars that are sold in now are electric.

And even this year, so far, 25% of their trucks are electric.

So that electrification means that they're going to be less affected by global oil shocks

and they won't have any petrol stations.

Greg, thank you very much. Now on with today's episode.

This episode is brought to you by Beer 52.

A good international squad needs balance, depth and variety.

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