282. Partition: The Birth of The Kashmir Conflict (Part 5)

Empire

Goalhanger

History

4.6 • 4.1K Ratings

🗓️ 18 August 2025

⏱️ 48 minutes

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Summary

What happened to the 565 princely states within British India when it became independent from the empire? How are the current conflicts in Balochistan and Kashmir linked to the partition of the princely states? Why have copies of the Lonely Planet been burnt because of their maps of Kashmir? William and Anita are joined once again by Sam Dalrymple, author of Shattered Lands: Five Partitions And The Making of Modern Asia, to discuss how the division of the princely states created a territorial dispute between nuclear nations which has continued ever since. Become a member of the Empire Club via empirepoduk.com to receive early access to miniseries, ad-free listening, early access to live show tickets, bonus episodes, book discounts, our exclusive newsletter, and access to our members’ chatroom on Discord! Head to empirepoduk.com to sign up. For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com. Email: [email protected] Instagram: @empirepoduk Blue Sky: @empirepoduk X: @empirepoduk Assistant Producer: Becki Hills Producer: Anouska Lewis Executive Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	If you want access to bonus episodes reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat community.
0:06.7	Discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast, add free listening and a weekly newsletter,
0:12.0	sign up to Empire Club at www.empowerpod.ukuk.com.
0:32.4	Hello and welcome to Empire with me, Anita Arnden.
0:34.5	And me, William Durimple.
0:36.5	And we are joined again by Sam Durumple,
0:40.1	the author of the rather marvellous new book,
0:42.2	Five Partitions. It's brilliant.
0:48.3	And it talks about areas of the partition that most of us talk about between India and Pakistan,
0:53.9	but also other areas, which, you know what, they are really important and they remain important and they are in the news even today.
0:56.3	So I don't know how many times I've been asked.
0:58.8	What are the roots of the problems that almost led these two countries to a direct war?
1:04.5	Only one month ago, yeah.
1:06.5	Just over a month ago, exactly right.
1:08.7	And there are two sort of princely states which will figure
1:11.0	in this, which are really important, which were central to all of that on the brink of
1:16.6	situation that we found ourselves in. Kashmir, of course, being one, which is where the violence
1:21.4	started and precipitated a much bigger conflict between these two countries, where everybody
1:27.2	was on the edge of their seats to see what would happen and how long it would go on for.
1:31.1	But also Balochistan, which is a place in Pakistan, which you may be less familiar with.
1:35.4	Anyway, Sam, thank you very much for being with us again.
1:39.5	So, look, we mentioned and we touched upon this idea of, you know, there wasn't just the one
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