Dr.

This is what you did.

You have got to the heart of the matter.

That's what you did.

And it's so important.

It's so vital, it's so vital.

so powerful.

I have spent basically most of my adult life

obsessed with the idea that some things matter more than other things. Some things are essential, some things matter more than other things

some things are essential some things less essential

the difference when somebody has identified the real issue

versus a good thing, you know, one of the issues, and never mind comparing it to addressing

completely peripheral issues that have actually almost nothing to do with the real thing is immense.

And I see you there, even in your description in part one of this conversation of you listening to those conversations in your therapeutic

sessions again and again and again. Yes, not just not satisfied to just keep doing things that are good but around the issue,

but trying to get to it, the very heart of it.

And the reason that matters so much, to me personally,

is because as soon as I understood this,

that that's the target. It changed everything. So you continue, for example, and hold me tight and love sense to outline conversations that you can have these kinds of bonding conversations and I'm not in any way

knocking those to say this. That to me is all really useful. But once I understood the heart of it that you pinpointed, everything already

changed. Right. I, like because, I mean you make this point in there about secure attachment that it isn't primarily skill-based,

although of course one needs to develop skills in life and communication, but at least for my wife, Anna, and I, maybe there was enough skill there already, you know, maybe that's a factor, but it just, I actually think we had high, high communication skills prior to this, and that's part of what allowed our relationship

...