272. Is Anthropic holding businesses to ransom?

The Rest Is Money

Goalhanger

Politics, Business, News

3.6 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 22 April 2026

⏱️ 55 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Is it fair that only some businesses have access to Anthropic’s super-powerful Mythos AI, given its ability to pierce cyber defences? Will OpenAI go bust? Will Demis Hassabis win the AI wars? Robert Peston talks to Sebastian Mallaby about his biography of British AI genius Demis Hassabis, The Infinity Machine. Note: We contacted OpenAI for comment, who told us that 'the article revisits old, widely reported episodes and frames them through selective anecdotes, anonymous claims, and incomplete context. They also said that OpenAI today is a very different company: larger, more mature, more rigorously governed, and operating at global scale. The Rest is Money is brought to you by Octopus Energy, Britain’s smart energy pioneer. Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠restismoney@goalhanger.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@TheRestIsMoney⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@TheRestIsMoney⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RestIsMoney⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Advertise with us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Partnerships@goalhanger.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	The prospect that AI could exterminate us.
0:03.0	You take that very seriously, don't you?
0:05.0	People over the millennia have understood technology is both exciting and frightening.
0:11.0	Look at Open AI.
0:12.0	People knew he was a pathological liar.
0:14.0	This was sort of fairly common line of analysis in Silicon Valley.
0:17.0	Open AI is losing money, hand over fist, hundreds of billions on research.
0:22.6	So it's losing money, I actually think it's going to go bust.
0:24.6	It's just been quite a big claim which I can't let go by.
0:27.6	Why do you think they're actually going to go bust?
0:29.6	Because... Hello and welcome to The Rest Is Money with me, Robert Peston, and I'm delighted today
0:44.3	to be joined by Sebastian Malaby, who's written a huge number of books, often on finance, but his
0:52.7	latest book is absolutely of the moment. It's called the Infinity
0:56.7	Machine. Now, it says that it is about Demis Hasabis, who was the founder of Deep Mind and,
1:06.2	you know, arguably, if not the most influential player in the artificial intelligence world, certainly
1:15.1	one of the two or three jockeying for that title.
1:20.4	But actually, it's about much more than that as a book.
1:25.5	And the reason, you know, I might as well get my praise out the way that I loved it
1:29.2	is because it's filled with really important ideas
1:35.0	about how this wave of AI technology is changing our economy,
1:40.0	changing society,
1:41.6	something that on this podcast we're completely obsessed with. But it's also
	...

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