Hey everybody and welcome to Invested. I'm

I'm Danielle Town. I'm so lucky today to be joined by Dan Heath

who is the author of a number of books. He's the co-author along with

his brother, Chip, of four bestsellers, Made to Stick, Switch, Decisive, and The Power of Moments moments which I'm sure you guys have heard of

sold over 3 million copies worldwide been translated into 33 languages but that is not

what he is here today to talk about. He's here to talk about his new book upstream, the quest to solve problems before they happen. It was an instant Wall Street Journal bestseller. And Dan, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Danielle. So I was super excited to talk to you about Upstream because it to me

applies exactly to what we try to do as long-term investors.

We're looking for what we think a company is going to do in the next 10 years, 20 years,

by seeing that they handle their stuff,

their problems really well now.

What does upstream mean?

Give me the primer on upstream.

Yes, so the term upstream, I first heard in a parable that I heard about a decade ago.

And let me just start with that parable.

So it goes like this, you and a friend are having a picnic by the side of a river.

And just as you're laying out your picnic blanket

getting ready to sit down and eat you hear a shout from the direction of the river.

So you look behind you and there's a child thrashing in the water,

apparently drowning.

So you both instinctively dive in,

you fish the child out, you bring them to safety

...