This is Jocco Podcast number 265 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.

Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And also joining us tonight is Dave Burke.

Good evening, Dave. Good evening. So last podcast we introduced Marine Corps

Doctional Publication 1-TAC 4, which is called competing. And of course we only

made it 1-Chapter Deep because well there's a lot to go into. And so we're

going to continue on. But first we're going to take a little tangental drip into

my head a little bit. So in reading that manual and as I talked and I talked

about this, I started correlating competing with influencing. And you take that

one step further, which isn't very a very big step. What is influencing?

Influencing is leading. That's what you're doing. So one of the main things

that I liked about this Marine Corps concept of competing was this idea of this

continuum of competition that they present in this book. It goes from pure

piece on one side, just pure piece. And then it starts to move to the right. It

goes to economic competition and then classic diplomacy and then political

warfare. And then there's this gray zone and then you get into hybrid, hybrid

war. And then you get into the threat of violence. And then you finally cross

the what they call the violence threshold. And then to so you're now you're

using violence. And then even violence has a place that that expands on this

continuum. It goes to from conventional war and then it keeps going further and

further to the right to you get to total war where one side is using. And you know

all means necessary to completely destroy the enemy. And so with that I started

thinking about the continuum of influence or the continuum of leadership that we

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