I think there's a vulnerability in terms of the arts having a group think mentality and going back to that idea you can be

in fashion or out fashion and it feels like it very much has become a bubble and

it's sort of regurgitating the same ideas with the same people and people

are so terrified of being ostracized, they're so fearful and it's so incredible because

like the issues keep shifting and how do you know that what you say next isn't going to be the thing that they attack you on.

Hello, welcome back to the Brendan O'Neill show with me Brendan O'Neill and my special

guest this week. Rosie K. Rosie, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. I'm really pleased to be here. Happy New Year, I think we can still say just...

We can, happy New Year to you as well. It's great to have you back on the podcast.

The last time you're on the podcast we talked about your personal experience of cancel culture

Some listeners will know that you are an esteemed choreographer and that you lost your role at your own dance company, the Rosie

Kaye dance company, after you committed the heresy of expressing gender

critical views, the biologically correct belief that there are men and women and they are quite different.

We can come back to some of that in a bit and talk about that issue and the consequences of it.

But I want to kick off with something a bit more positive,

which is your response to your experience of cancel culture.

You have now set up a group called Freedom in the Arts.

It's pretty self-explanatory.

It sounds like it's a movement that wants to fortify and expand artistic freedom.

But could you just let us know what freedom in the arts is,

why you've set it up and what you hope it will achieve in the contemporary climate?

Sure, so together with Denise Farnie, who is the woman that you may have heard of, she was a relationship officer at the Arts Council and she was accused, similarly to me, of transphobia for defending women's rights in

...