260. Is This Marriage Healthy? Recognizing Destructive Patterns with Leslie Vernick
Female by Design
Francie Winslow
4.9 • 686 Ratings
🗓️ 13 April 2026
⏱️ 52 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
What's the difference between a difficult marriage and a destructive one—and how do you know when it's time to speak up?
In this powerful conversation, Francie sits down with counselor and author Leslie Vernick to unpack destructive patterns in marriage, reclaiming your voice, and what it truly means to be a strong, biblical woman.
Together, they address harmful teachings around submission, the loss of a woman's voice, and how to discern between normal marital struggles and unhealthy or abusive dynamics.
This episode offers both clarity and practical wisdom for women who feel confused, shut down, or unsure of what is healthy in their marriage.
What You'll Learn
The difference between a disappointing marriage and a destructive one
Why "submission" has often been misunderstood and misapplied
What it means to be an ezer—a strong, helping partner, not a silent one
How to begin using your voice in a healthy, grounded way
Signs of emotional, spiritual, or relational harm
How to discern your next steps with wisdom and support
A healthy marriage allows for honesty, growth, and mutual care. If your voice is consistently dismissed, ignored, or punished, something deeper may be wrong.
About Leslie Vernick
Leslie Vernick is a licensed counselor, author, and speaker dedicated to helping individuals and couples navigate difficult and destructive relationships. With over 40 years of counseling experience, she specializes in emotional abuse, relationship health, and biblical wisdom for real-life challenges.
She is the author of The Emotionally Destructive Marriage and founder of Leslie Vernick Ministries, where she equips women to move from confusion and fear into clarity, strength, and truth.
Resources + Next Steps
Book: The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick
Website: leslievernick.com (find the Free Quiz: Is your marriage difficult, disappointing, or destructive? And, Free Training: If He Doesn't Hit You, Is It Still Abuse?)
If you are in a situation that feels unsafe or confusing, seeking wise, informed support is an important next step.
Note from Francie
This conversation may feel tender or activating if you've experienced harm in your marriage. You are not alone, and there is help available.
Connect with Francie
🎓 Back to the Garden: A Married Woman's Guide to Pleasure by Design — get a see a fresh vision of what a fully alive, God-honoring intimacy (and pleasure) could actually look like for your marriage. → here
🌿 The Circle — group mentorship community where women have conversations with likeminded women on a journey together towards more→ here
📩 Submit your listener question → Instagram DMs or franciewinslow.com
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the Female by Design podcast, an honest space for female flourishing. |
| 0:07.8 | I'm Francie Winslow. |
| 0:09.9 | Together, we'll explore sexuality and spirituality by God's design, healing our relationship |
| 0:16.9 | with pleasure, our bodies, and our identity as beloved image bearers. |
| 0:23.1 | So let's take a deep breath and step into God's invitation to live fully alive as women, |
| 0:30.9 | mind, body, and spirit. I'm so glad you're here. |
| 0:36.6 | Hey everybody. |
| 0:38.2 | This is the intro for the Leslie Vernick podcast that I recorded with Leslie. |
| 0:45.6 | She is the founder and leader of Leslie Vernick Ministries, I think is what they call it. |
| 0:53.0 | But Leslie Vernick has authored multiple books, |
| 0:56.4 | one including the emotionally destructive marriage. And so we're talking about that today. |
| 1:01.5 | And I wanted to give you a little heads up before we jump into the interview because it's deep. |
| 1:06.4 | It is potentially going to trigger some pretty big feelings in some of us if you are in what is |
| 1:14.5 | considered difficult to destructive marriage. And it ends in good news. It is good news that |
| 1:22.1 | we have been given a voice and there are resources. There is help out there. If you are finding yourself in a |
| 1:28.6 | place where you're really needing help and you feel trapped or you feel like you are being |
| 1:33.4 | mistreated emotionally or physically, there are supports out there. And Leslie has beautiful, |
| 1:40.4 | scriptural, practical, therapeutic advice. She's so wise and so practical and so |
| 1:46.3 | theologically aligned with what is true and good. And we touch on the female submission topic |
| 1:52.3 | and how that has led us into a pretty big mess. We touch on the loss of our voice on defining |
| 1:58.1 | Azer and what it is to be a woman and then a ton of practicals about identifying. Is this |
| 2:02.1 | a disappointing marriage or a destructive marriage? Some scripts to use while you're talking, but it's a |
... |
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