Book your ticket to happiness with Sun Express Airlines. Hello and joining me on today's episode is

Tom Slater editor of Spiked and Ella Wielen a spike economist.

Hi. On this week's episode we'll be discussing the desperate downplaying of Hamas's crimes, the fallout of the Dublin riots and the witch hunting of Rosie Duffield.

So unfortunately we have to talk again this week about this phenomena of

atrocity denial of this kind of desperate jump to downplay or outright deny even in some places

the crimes that Hamas committed against Israel on the 7th of October.

And this is really sort of blown up again this week, mostly because of a reaction video that was put out by a guardian columnist, Owen Jones.

And essentially this video he talks us through his takes on the footage that was released

by the Israeli government documenting the crimes of Hamas.

And Owen Jones doesn't deny the atrocities, but he does demand more proof,

specifically of the motivations and intentionality of Hamas.

You know, he admits, okay, sure, we can see the corpses of women, but how can we know that they were raped and you know we can see the

bodies of the children that were killed but how do we know that they were

killed intentionally? So Tom what is the deal with people like Owen Jones?

Are they just asking questions as they say or is there something more sinister about this?

I think if you want an insight into how much the pro-Palestine left have lost the moral plot, lost their moral bearings.

You do worse than watching that 20 minute video.

It's incredible to watch someone recounts the horrendous things

that you've seen, which, as as you say he doesn't flat out deny, he doesn't say that the mass didn't commit war crimes, accepts that from the off. He also talks about how distressing it was to view. Of course it was, but he then kind of goes through it in this bizarre pedantic

fashion as to what he's willing to believe more than what he isn't so cases of we

didn't see anyone being sexually assaulted so we can't confirm that. There was a woman whose child remains was found

without any underwear on but obviously that's not proof. You do see a couple of young boys

...