Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Graham Cochran about his new book Rebel,

which is so great. If you haven't listened to last week's episode, definitely go back,

listen to that one first. This is a continuation of my conversation with Graham. I told him when

I was talking with him. I feel like this is a sermon for me. How is it that we're talking about your book

called Rebel right now? It's so good.

I hope you enjoy our conversation. It was such a challenge and such a blessing to me all at

once. I know you're going to love it. Here's part two of my conversation with Graham Cochran.

You're listening to Work and Play with Nancy Ray, episode 247.

Much of our lives can be divided into two categories, work and play.

Simply put, that's for our life and our legacy take place.

This is a podcast all about learning to work and play well,

which leads to a healthy soul and a fulfilling life.

Listen in.

So much of your book talks about how this whole thing starts in your mind and in your thought patterns and

kind of in your programming, because we've all been kind of programmed by our parents,

the culture, even like you said earlier, maybe the churches we've been a part of, our friends who

lives close to us. So how do we break out of that? If we've been thinking one way for so

long, or we feel like, okay, you know, someone's listening to our conversation, they're like,

I like what they're saying, but now how do I think differently or how do I actually do this?

Where do you begin with the way that you think?

Like, how do you change your programming?

Yeah, so in the book, we walk through like a five-step framework, and it spells out the word rebel to make it easy. And so the first two

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