Summary In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the recent events involving Josh Howerton and Mark Driscoll. They talk about Josh's apology and the similarities between his apology and another pastor's apology. They also discuss Mark's controversial remarks at the Stronger Men's Conference and his use of the Jezebel spirit trope. The conversation delves into the problematic nature of these actions and the reactions from the audience and online community. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the recent controversy surrounding Mark Driscoll and his involvement in the Stronger Men's Conference. They explore the dynamics of the charismatic world and its tendency to look for demons everywhere, as well as the intersection of Christian nationalism and charismatic beliefs. They also highlight the lack of accountability and the documented legacy of abuse associated with Mark Driscoll. The conversation touches on the internalized misogyny within evangelical circles and the problematic views on women's modesty. They conclude by discussing the recent developments involving John Lindell and his call for Mark Driscoll to repent. Takeaways Apologies should be genuine and not copied from others Using the Jezebel spirit trope is sexist and misogynistic Mark Driscoll's actions and remarks are calculated and attention-seeking The reactions from the audience and online community reveal the problematic nature of these actions. The charismatic world is often primed to look for demons everywhere, and this tendency is amplified when combined with Christian nationalist beliefs. Mark Driscoll has a history of abuse and a lack of accountability, yet he continues to gain a following and promote his new book. There is a prevalent issue of internalized misogyny within evangelical circles, with many women defending Mark Driscoll despite his problematic views and treatment of women. John Lindell has called out Mark Driscoll for his actions and has received death threats as a result. The concept of 'modesty' in evangelical circles is often misused and places the burden on women to manage men's thoughts and actions. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Setting 07:07 Josh Howerton's Apology and Plagiarism 31:26 Mark's Calculated Actions and Reactions 43:04 John Lindell's Call for Mark Driscoll to Repent Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices