Hi, Latter Day struggles, friends and fans.

We know that navigating a faith crisis can feel overwhelming, especially when it impacts our closest relationships, our parents, our partners, and our kids.

That's why Valerie has created two online self-paced classes to help.

The first is a couple's guide to faith crisis and expansion.

This class is here for a partner

or couple who want to navigate faith shifts with mutual respect and deeper connection. Next is

a family's guide to mixed faith parenting. This class offers tools to help parents develop

greater harmony and understanding when belief differences arise within our families. Both classes are

packed with helpful tools and perspectives that can

give you hope and a way forward. So if you're looking for a little guidance on this,

visit laddarday struggles.com to learn more. Struggles. This is your host, Valerie, and I am pleased and delighted to have my dear friend and colleague Fiona Givens here with me today. Hello, Fiona. How are you?

I am really well, Val. I'm delighted to be with you again. We are having so much fun if it's possible to have fun talking about crime and punishment and

neuroscience and atonement. These are some thick, deep, robust topics that you and I love to talk

about, huh, Fiona? True. Absolutely. Yes. So today we are on episode number three of a very robust four-part series where we are

tackling one of the more profound book chapters that I have ever read. And Fiona, would you go

ahead and tell us the name of the book that we are referencing,

this Atonement book that's brand new out and the name of your chapter?

So just so that people can purchase this if they would like to after they hear us talk.

Latter-day Perspectives on Atonement.

And what's the name of the chapter itself, Fiona?

It's Chapter 9, and it's entitled,

Atonement and Retributive Justice. Okay. So, Atonement and Retributive Justice. And I will confess,

...