Cheryl (67) and Michael (69) have built rich, full lives: multiple careers, reinventions, and nearly 12 years of marriage. Yet when it comes to money, they feel stuck. They earn about $120,000 a year, have roughly $600,000 saved, and regularly book $10,000–$15,000 vacations focused on travel, family, and experiences. Then, almost immediately, panic sets in. With mostly separate finances, lingering trust issues from past decisions, and no clear retirement plan, they’re embarrassed to admit that they don’t actually know when (or if) they can retire. Cheryl wants clarity and confidence about the future, while Michael wrestles with fear, guilt, and uncertainty around spending and security. Can Ramit help them stop oscillating between YOLO travel and financial anxiety, and finally create a plan that lets them enjoy life without fear? In this episode we uncover: • Why Cheryl and Michael can easily book $10K–$15K vacations, then immediately panic • How a “dream trip” exposes deeper confusion about what money they actually have access to • How Michael losing $12,000 from an inheritance investment triggered feelings of betrayal • Cheryl’s cancer survival and how living with mortality reshaped her urgency to travel, spend, and fully live now • Michael’s discomfort with seeing money as “real” unless it’s physically accessible • Why keeping finances mostly separate makes it nearly impossible to feel confident about retirement • The emotional weight of being the higher earner • How early family money stories still shape Michael’s decisions today • Cheryl’s journey from Wall Street wealth to purpose-driven work • Why spending in retirement feels scarier than earning ever did • How “YOLO travel” and hyper-frugality coexist • What their Conscious Spending Plan reveals about low fixed costs, high freedom, and misplaced fear • Why having a financial advisor still didn’t give them clarity or peace of mind Chapters: (00:00:00) “I’m just doing this for Cheryl” (00:23:13) Ramit breaks down their numbers (00:45:23) “If we’re not on the same page, it’ll be an ugly retirement” (01:08:29) “Am I worth it now—or am I still that kid asking permission?” (01:10:01) “We never talked about money when we met” (01:23:10) “If we retire now… will it feel like freedom—or fear?” (01:36:38) Where are they now? Cheryl and Michael’s follow-ups This episode is brought to you by: ZocDoc | Download the ZocDoc app for FREE at https://zocdoc.com/ramit then find and book a top-rated doctor today #sponsored Leesa | Go to https://leesa.com for 20% off mattresses PLUS get an extra $50 off with promo code RAMIT, exclusive for my listeners Factor | Get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box at https://factormeals.com/ramit50OFF with code RAMIT50OFF Facet | Facet is waiving their $250 enrollment fee for new annual members, and for my audience, Facet is offering $300 into your brokerage account if you invest and maintain $5,000 within your first 90 days. Head to https://facet.com/ramit to learn more about which membership option is best for you. Offer expires December 31, 2025. Fabric by Gerber Life | Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://meetfabric.com/ramit Links mentioned in this episode • If you want help with your finances, join my Money Coaching program at https://iwt.com/moneycoaching Connect with Ramit • Get my new book, Money For Couples • Get Money Coaching with Ramit • Download the Conscious Spending Plan • Listen to my book—now on Audible • Get my New York Times best-selling book • Get my no-numbers journal • Other episodes • Instagram • Twitter • YouTube If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here.