I'm Ben Sawyer.

I'm Bob Crawford.

This is the road to now.

Our guest today is a teaching professor at Syracuse University, where she teaches courses

on the First Amendment, particularly freedom of speech.

And she now has a book out based upon her 15 years of experience teaching

this and previously working as a lawyer in the state of New York. Lynn Greenkey, the author of

When Freedom Speaks the Boundaries and Boundlessness of our First Amendment rights,

welcome to the road to now. Thank you very much. Glad to be here. Thank you. Your book, I got to say, it is so

accessible. All right. I'm a historian. And obviously because in my classes, we have to cover

major court decisions, the First Amendment is always tricky, but the freedom of speech thing,

this is something I've tried to wrap my head around. This is something that I

hear enough people speaking about and I absolutely know they are wrong when they talk about it. But then

there are all these middle ground areas where it's not clear. And your book was so helpful with this.

And so, Lynn, could we start off? I'm just going to, I'm going to throw one at you because I thought

this was fascinating. Why is it illegal to burn your draft card, but it is perfectly legal and

upheld twice by the Supreme Court to burn an American flag? Okay. So, burning the draft card versus

burning the flag. When the legislature creates legislation, they can do it. They can focus it on

behavior or they can focus it on speech. If they focus it on behavior, that's called,

then it is a content neutral. If they focus, it's called content neutral. If they focus it on

speech, it's called content based. When David, the burning the draft card, that was back in the

1960s during the Vietnam War. And what the Congress decided is that they needed to have all the men who were drafted

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