229R: Find Courage to Speak When It Matters Most, with Allan McDonald
Coaching for Leaders
Dave Stachowiak
4.8 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 25 December 2023
⏱️ 48 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Allan J. McDonald retired as vice president and technical director for advanced technology programs at ATK Thiokol Propulsion in 2001. He was the director of the Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Motor Project at the time of the Challenger accident and, later, vice president of engineering for space operations during the redesign and requalification of the solid rocket motors. Al passed away in 2021.
Al was the one person who officially refused to sign off on Challenger's launch on January 28, 1986. His concerns for the launch conditions were ultimately overridden by his boss. He would eventually testify to the Rogers Commission which had major implications for their findings. Later in life, he spoke to audiences all over the world on ethics and decision-making. He's the author with James Hansen of Truth, Lies, and O-Rings: Inside the Space Shuttle Challenger Disaster*.
In this conversation, Al shared the details of the conversation between NASA and Morton Thiokol the evening prior to the launch. He also detailed what happened after the accident and his extraordinary decision to interrupt NASA's testimony to the Rogers Commission. He also shared a key message on why it still matters, all these years later.
Key Points
As director of the solid rocket motor project, Al McDonald refused to sign off on the launch, concerned that launch weather conditions were unsafe.
Despite almost perfectly predicting the accident, Al himself was initially unconvinced that the solid rocket motors were the cause, believing the shuttle would have exploded on the pad had that been the case.
When it appeared that NASA officials weren't being fully transparent about the events leading up to the accident, Al interrupted their testimony to the Rogers Commission, a move he fully expected would end his career.
Al was effectively demoted after his testimony. Congress ultimately intervened with a law that would have ended his organization's government contract, unless they reinstated his prior position. He's the only individual in American history to be restored to his job by an act of Congress.
It's your responsibility as a professional to have an opinion and to speak up. Don’t assume that other people will always do their job.
Resources Mentioned
Remembering Allan McDonald: He Refused To Approve Challenger Launch, Exposed Cover-Up by NPR
Major Malfunction: Revisiting Challenger by The New York Times
Related Episodes
How to Deal with Opponents and Adversaries, with Peter Block(episode 328)
The Way to Make Better Decisions, with Annie Duke (episode 499)
The Way Out of Major Conflict, with Amanda Ripley (episode 529)
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Hi Dave Stahoviac here host of the Coaching for Leaders podcast |
| 0:04.0 | before sharing this episode with you you should know I'm taking a brief break on |
| 0:08.9 | airing new episodes until Monday January 8th. |
| 0:13.0 | I've got so many wonderful conversations already scheduled for 2024 here. |
| 0:17.7 | I cannot wait to bring them to you. |
| 0:19.8 | But in the meantime, I wanted to share over these next two weeks, two past episodes, I'm rebroadcasting, |
| 0:26.7 | both of which I've heard such wonderful feedback on since they originally aired years ago. And the episode you're about to hear and next week's as well are on the theme of courage. |
| 0:38.0 | So many different kinds of leaders from across industry, government, nonprofits, faith-based communities come together as part of our |
| 0:47.2 | listening community and our membership. |
| 0:50.0 | And every one of us needs to find our voice to have courage at the right moment. |
| 0:55.2 | Both this episode you're about to hear and next week's feature people who did just that. |
| 1:00.9 | When I was in third grade, I remember watching the American flag being lowered to half |
| 1:05.8 | staff as the news came that the space shuttle challenger had exploded. As a kid who thought he |
| 1:11.5 | wanted to be an astronaut someday, it's one of the moments I remember clearest about world events from my childhood. |
| 1:18.0 | But what I didn't know then, until many years later, was about what played out the night before that fateful launch. |
| 1:25.5 | And then I met Al McDonald. |
| 1:28.0 | Al worked for Morton Thai called the folks who manufactured the solid rocket boosters |
| 1:32.2 | and helped get the shuttles into space. |
| 1:35.0 | He thought it was too risky to fly that day, and he's the one person who refused to sign off |
| 1:40.9 | on the launch. |
| 1:41.9 | Sadly, Al passed away since this episode originally aired, which is why I think it's even more important we hear his voice again. |
| 1:50.0 | This is a rebroadcast of Coaching for Leaders, episode 229. |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Dave Stachowiak, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Dave Stachowiak and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

