So, it is Sunday the 10th of December. It's the afternoon. Coppers beginning to really

heat up as we focus on the final plenary and so much left on the table for the coming

days. And I have to say, I really feel like a historic transformative outcome is very

much within our grasp, but we're not going to talk about that negotiate outcome now. Instead,

I'm very honored to be sitting here with two high level climate action champions, Nigel

Topping, Rizan on the Barak. And I'd love to have a conversation with both of you over

the next 20-25 minutes around how we should think about this cop. It comes in an interesting

time, right? It's the end of the hottest year on record. It's hosted in a fossil fuel country.

However, there's been an enormous amount of commitments that have come out of the last

few years. We've had a fund on loss and damage. We've been fighting for for 30 years. And

I've done a lot of interviews over the last few days. And one of the things I would say

is journalists are a bit confused about how to interpret it. Some of them are saying it's

a binary success failure based on the final text. That seems a bit limited. It obviously

has a role and there's been so much else that's happened. Nigel, I'd love to start with you.

You've been in this space for a long time. And just that broad question, how should we

think about this cop as to where we are now? Well, I think we shouldn't just think about

the negotiated outcome. I mean, it's really important. I mean, as you say, the loss and

damage has already been landed, there's other difficult technical bits, including the fossil

fuel phase out question, yet to be determined. But for quite a while now, the choreography

of cops has been evolving, so that as well as the negotiations amongst all nation-states,

there's this sort of vast action agenda that happens alongside with an originally that

was conceived as before Paris, as non-state actors only. But increasingly, it's both businesses,

...