Hey everybody this is Aubrey Chavez from faith matters today we're so excited to welcome

therapist and podcaster Valerie Hammaker in his book falling upward Franciscan

priest Richard Rohrer uses the metaphor of a container to elaborate on what he calls the two halves of life.

The first half of life, he says, is for building the structure of the container, and the second

is for filling it and sharing from it. This concept has been foundational for us in our faith

journey over the last 10 years and today with Valerie we delved into how faith

evolves over time and the necessity of structure and identity in early faith

development and the importance of embracing complexity and depth and paradox as we grow.

One of the trickiest parts about faith evolution is that not everyone's faith

evolves in the same way and because so many of us have built our lives on or around our faith,

it can be really hard when we see loved ones and family members' beliefs diverge significantly from

our own in any direction. This is a real area of expertise for Valerie

in her own practice, and we found her insights

on managing complex relationships and spiritual growth

so helpful.

She helped us see that genuine curiosity

can be crucial in navigating complex conversations around beliefs.

And she explained why we can and should let go of any belief that engenders fear.

Valerie is a licensed therapist specializing in marriage and couples work.

She owns a private counseling practice in Kansas City, Missouri and is the host of the Latter-Day

struggles podcast, where she helps Latter-day Saints understand and navigate their spiritual growth.

This conversation

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