220. Disobedience
The Allusionist
Helen Zaltzman
4.7 • 3.8K Ratings
🗓️ 9 November 2025
⏱️ 41 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
“The more we look into social structures, the more many of us realize we don't fit into them," says So Mayer, author of the new book Bad Language, "So each phrase or set of vocabulary is another piece of that dismantlement.” We discuss finding vocabulary for oneself, coming out as a speech act, growing up under Section 28, busting through oppression and shame, and joyous listening.
Content note: in the episode we refer to sexual abuse or crimes against consent, and to suicide, but we do not go into any detail about these things, or describe any experiences. Also there are some category A and B swears.
Visit theallusionist.org/disobedience for more information about So's work and today's topics, plus a transcript of the episode.
Support the show at theallusionist.org/donate and as well as keeping this independent podcast going, you also get behind-the-scenes info about every episode; livestreams with me reading from my ever-growing collection of dictionaries, and the charming and nurturing Allusioverse Discord community, where among daily sharing of thoughts and amusements, we're watching The Princess Bride, the current season of Great Canadian Baking Show, and Game of Wool.
This episode was produced by me, Helen Zaltzman, on the unceded ancestral and traditional territory of xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and səlilwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations. Martin Austwick. Download his own songs at palebirdmusic.com and on Bandcamp, and listen to his podcasts Song By Song and Neutrino Watch.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This is the illusionist, in which I, Helen Zaltzman, find some language that someone left out on the verge with a sign saying, free, take it! |
| 0:12.0 | And it appears to be in perfectly good condition, so I pick it up, carry it home, pat it dry, wish it good night, then discover the hard way that it's haunted. Today's episode is, |
| 0:23.1 | how to describe this episode. It's a conversation with someone who has a new book out that's sort of |
| 0:27.6 | a personal philosophy of language. And I love hearing from people who have such a complex |
| 0:31.8 | set of emotional and intellectual relationships with language. Content note, we refer to sexual abuse or crimes against consent |
| 0:39.4 | and to suicide, but we do not go into any detail about these things or describe any experiences. |
| 0:46.9 | Also, there are some category A and B swears. I'm still taking your requests and language |
| 0:54.0 | problems and queries about new or replacement |
| 0:56.6 | terms you need for an episode coming up later in the year. Head to the illusionist.org |
| 1:01.6 | slash contact to deliver your thoughts to me in the form of written or voice messages. Thanks very |
| 1:06.7 | much if you've done so already. On with the show. |
| 1:22.0 | Hi, I'm So-Mayer. I'm a London-based bookseller, writer, editor and organiser, |
| 1:30.4 | not of myself. I'm very disorganised. And I have just written and published a book called Bad Language, which is a memoir and manifesto about language and power and dragons. It's a book about the role |
| 1:40.0 | that language plays in oppressing and controlling us, not just in how it's used by politicians, |
| 1:48.6 | but the place that language has in the world, why we attribute authority to language, but also |
| 1:54.8 | how language is what can free us from that and how we move from that one often very terrifying state. |
| 2:02.8 | Language is something that we make and that means we can take back the power of making |
| 2:07.8 | it together. |
| 2:09.3 | But in a way this book began with allowing myself to not understand things, to not understand |
| 2:16.7 | words. |
| 2:19.0 | Bad language began as a project called Dist words, where I let myself be disturbed, what I didn't know about words. |
| 2:26.2 | What do you mean by you let yourself be disturbed? What does that involve? The more you think |
... |
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