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The Realignment

217 | Ian Buruma: How the Ghosts of Churchill and Appeasement at Munich Haunt Ukraine

The Realignment

The Realignment

Saager Enjeti, Technology, Policy, News, Marshall Kosloff, International Relations, Politics, News Commentary, Public Policy, U.s. Politics, National Security, Economics

4.82.5K Ratings

🗓️ 18 March 2022

⏱️ 57 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

For Day 12 of The Realignment's daily Ukraine coverage, Marshall spoke with Ian Buruma, historian and author of The Churchill Complex: The Curse of Being Special, from Winston and FDR to Trump and Brexit. They discuss how much our judgment of Zelensky, Biden, and Putin's performances are shaped by myths and lessons from Winston Churchill's leadership during World War II, along with mistakes made by the British and French when it came to confronting Hitler in 1938. SUPPORT/SEND US A TIP: https://buy.stripe.com/bIYdRx0gc6qjaE... REALIGNMENT NEWSLETTER: https://therealignment.substack.com/ BOOKSHOP: https://bookshop.org/shop/therealignment

Transcript

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0:00.0

Marshall here. Welcome back to the Realignment.

0:02.7

Hey everyone, happy Friday. Thank you for tuning into the show, especially as we've

0:11.9

increased the cadence for the past three weeks and also for the foreseeable future.

0:16.6

Today's episode is about Winston Churchill, the legacy of appeasement at Munich and how

0:23.0

the world was remade after 1945 and how that conversation relates to today. A lot of conversations

0:29.4

and thoughts about how we should respond to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, how we assess

0:34.8

Joe Biden's leadership, how he is addressed and respond to Zelensky's leadership, especially

0:39.5

given the fact that he just testified in front of Congress this week. Stems to our images

0:46.0

of Winston Churchill and his performance in World War II after Britain went through

0:50.6

the appeasement policy after 1938 in Munich. So today's guest Ian Baruma has written a

0:55.6

book. It's called The Churchill Complex, the curse of being special from Winston and

0:59.7

FDR to Trump and Brexit. He has this really interesting phrase in the book where he basically

1:05.0

says the West and the US and Britain, especially have been really haunted by the ghosts of

1:11.3

Winston Churchill and Munich and how it has shaped our responses to every single crisis

1:16.8

since World War II from Vietnam to the Korean War to the Cuban Missile Crisis to the Iraq

1:21.9

War. So lots of examples of good and positive actions and other examples given bad actions.

1:27.2

So as we are looking and assessing Biden's performance, as we're assessing Putin's performance,

1:31.8

as we are assessing Zelensky's performance, it's important that we think about the world

1:36.2

and think about how these models of leadership can and cannot apply for this last bit of

1:41.9

the intro. I would love for you all to do one very simple thing. Go into your Apple podcast

1:47.0

app under the Realignment Show page, go into Spotify under the Realignment Show Pays

1:51.2

and rate the show five stars. If you're an Apple, please write a five star review with comments,

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