Radio Manu Papa Chango.

Yes, it's me, that voice in your head, you hear every week or so.

This week's episode is with Ted Slingerland, who wrote a book called

Try Not to Try, which is about the concept of

woe-way, which is being in the flow,

getting shit done without working, trying, just being there, letting it flow,

Taoism, ancient Chinese philosophy, very interesting stuff.

It's about a place where I'll try to be, I'll try to get to,

but it's one of those Chinese mind-fucks, you know, where you're trying to get there,

and by trying, you get further away.

It's like that thing you stick your fingers in, and the more you pull,

the tighter it gets on your fingers, the more you struggle,

the more hopeless the situation becomes.

And so you have to find this way of relaxing your way out of the crisis.

I guess that works.

I guess I've relaxed my way out of crises throughout my life.

It seems to make intuitive sense to me.

When I found myself in a real bind, like, you know, the Alaskan prison,

or when I left my money in that guest house in India, you may have heard,

I think I told that story in one of the, one of the Toma episodes.

Anyway, when I've been in a really bad spot, my instinct has been to just sort of surrender to it,

and not try to get too clever, and, you know, start telling lies,

...