from a very young age, I think a lot of people, and particularly women, are conditioned to see their

self-worth and attractiveness as the same thing. Like, they are basically valuable if someone else

rates them. I think a lot of women genuinely feel like they're only really alive, they're only

really in existence in those moments that they are envied or desired.

All other moments are really part of a quest to get to that place.

Hey, you're on air with Ella where we talk motivation, mindset, personal development,

basically everything you need to get more of what you want,

and let's look you don't. Let's go. Hey, you're on air with Ella, and today I am joined by Tilly Harris.

Now, if you've listened to the show before, you've heard Tilly. She's a writer. She's a psychosocial researcher, good friend of

mine, but today she is here. As a subject matter expert, I really wanted to have this conversation with Tilly. Now Tilly writes these really, really great interviews with women that are laced with truth bombs about the emotions and beliefs under the surface that drive people's behaviors and choices. And if you haven't read them, you can go check them out at our website, Tillyharris.com.

I will, of course, hook you up with those links. the surface that drive people's behaviors and choices. And if you haven't read them, you can go check

them out at our website, Tillyharris.com. I will of course hook you up with those links. You know you don't need to worry about that. All right. Hey, Tilly. Hi, Ella. We were talking about this. And as usual, I wish we had recorded our conversation. But we were talking about how fat loss is a step in a personal development journey for so many. And what I mean is I know a lot of

women move from the fat loss space into more of a mind, body, spirit, wellness space, like true

wellness. You know, we look at how to hack our body and then we learn so much more from delving

into that space and it becomes a much more robust journey. And I thought it would be fun to unpack that with you a little bit because you, like, this is what you do as a writer and a psychosocial researcher in your conversations with women. I think it's a really great observation Ella because, I mean, if you think about it, just if you walk into a bookshop, you'll find that, you know, right next to the stuff around nutrition and well-being physically, you've got a bunch of stuff that's been written by psychotherapists and counselors and people that talk about mindset and well-being. So I think, yeah, you've hit a really interesting point. How have we come up with a culture that sits fat loss next to emotional development? Well, and I mean, let's be real. That's how I got here.

I mean, you can, we have over 200 episodes in the first 100, if not 150, are fat loss and wellness and the pursuit of wellness,

but what I'm really meaning, wink nudge nudge is weight loss.

Yes, I think you're right. And I think loads of women experience that because I think women hit maybe, I don't know, their 40s or their 50s, maybe younger, but they have a sense that they're not living their best life. And then because women are brilliant, you know, because they're determined and resilient, they think, okay, what shall I do about it? The go-to place is to

change how they look rather than how they feel. And I think that's probably a broader issue,

which is that, well, as women, we're raised, I think, to experience ourselves from the outside

in instead of the inside out. We tend to come at ourselves by how we're coming across rather than how we feel at our core.

Whether we feel good about ourselves quite often depends on how others are experiencing us rather than the other way around.

...