21 million is Non-Negotiable | Phil Geiger, Center of Hash E004

TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast

Marty Bent

Technology

4.8 • 764 Ratings

🗓️ 19 August 2025

⏱️ 90 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Phil Geiger discusses the economic incentives of the bitcoin network, why there is (and always will be) an incentive for someone to profitably sell power to the network, what mechanisms make bitcoin unique as the only demand for power in the world that removes counterparty risk and how the non-negotiable nature of bitcoin’s fixed supply enables it all.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Bill Geiger.
0:05.0	Paper Bitcoin summer, summer of Phil. Which one is it?
0:10.0	Well, every summer is summer of Phil. So this summer, I think, is paper Bitcoin summer. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I think it's a really unique time in Bitcoin, the Bitcoinification of
0:22.8	Wall Street, if you will. It's not my favorite topic in the world is the financialization and all
0:28.1	that, but it is pretty wild to me to see the explosion of paper Bitcoin summer. Yeah, I should have
0:35.3	known, you know, I wrote the piece, Bitcoin is the great
0:39.2	defunationalization, that there would be some financialization of Bitcoin before
0:44.0	fiat ends and then true definancialization happens.
0:48.8	But I wouldn't say I was wrong about that.
0:50.9	It's just, you know, after Pierre wrote Speculative Tack in 2014, we should have,
0:56.2	we should have known that this was inevitable. And maybe that wasn't going to take this form,
1:00.6	but it's also perfectly logical. So I love it. Wall Street and all the kind of financial
1:06.3	markets around the world, they feel, or they feel like they're like they're dipping their toe into Bitcoin right now,
1:12.8	but Bitcoin is a black hole. And so actually they're kind of crossing the event horizon
1:17.4	without even realizing it. So I'm a huge fan of all of these different products. But yeah, I think
1:22.5	it is it is a short time period where Bitcoin is going to be rapidly financializing before, you know, to your point, to your paper, things rapidly defincialize.
1:32.8	Yeah, I love that it's drawing people in like Jim Chanos and that there's probably a bunch of people in Tradfai that are looking at it saying that this is all a scam.
1:43.9	And what they don't realize is that the bottomless pit of fiat and the arbitrages in the fiat world is actually what's creating it. Um, so yeah, if that capital is going to go to somewhere better to go to Bitcoin than some zombie company that was going to be extended just by the fiat system. Absolutely.
2:01.0	And I was looking at a chart.
2:02.2	I think it was Crucious's chart of Bitcoin at $2 trillion an asset class.
2:09.5	And then the different financial markets that are 100x the size of Bitcoin.
2:15.0	And somebody plotted all of the different Michael Saylor, you know,
	...

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